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I found what is funny / pathetic about this is that there are tons of psychology / education / especially educational measurement top experts in the UC system,

I found what is funny / pathetic about this is that there are tons of psychology / education / especially educational measurement top experts in the UC system, and they know how wrong it is, while they just keep mouth shut. The whole anti-standard-testing movement is pushed by ideology leftists and corrupted bureaucrats, but the supposed experts just quietly watch the world burn. Lol. Update: I found experts in the UCLA were tasked to make the suggestion. They suggested a new admission assessment. So the bureaucrats just totally disregarded their recommendation . See https://50.cresst.org/2020/05/20/cresst-recommendation-for-new-assessment-system-for-uc-admissions/ https://50.cresst.org/2020/05/20/cresst-recommendation-for-n... Also quote: The Task Force in its review found—to some surprise—that tests such as the SAT provide a useful tool to support admissions leading to a more diverse pool of admitted students than UC otherwise would have had. The Task Force found that approximately 25% of low-income, first-generation, and underrepresented minor students earned their guaranteed admission into UC because of test scores. The Task Force’s report showed that test scores are better predictors of success for underrepresented minority students, first-generation students, and those whose families are low- income. Using recent UC-specific data, the Task Force found that test scores remain predictive of success even after student demographics are taken into account. That is especially true when compared to high school grades, whose predictive power has gone down due, in part, to grade inflation. These findings tell us that there is value in the evidence that educational assessments provide, but they can be improved—and so can the UC admissions process as a result. In a vote of confidence in its veracity, the Task Force report was unanimously endorsed by faculty members of the UC’s Academic Senate, 51–0.

anonuser123456 5y ago
I have a friend that’s a CSU faculty member in science/engineering. The amount of ideological crap coming down the pipeline is shocking to him… and he’s a pretty liberal guy. But he has a mortgage to pay and dealing with protesting students doesn’t really interest him. He became a professor because he liked teaching, not to become a target.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > he has a mortgage to pay and dealing with protesting students doesn’t really interest him The great irony being it's decisions like this that are undermining support for the University of California. We're not there yet. But a few more of these, and I could see an off-year proposition that dramatically cuts the UC budget.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    And such proposition will be slammed as anti-intellectualism driven by stupid, jealous, greedy deplorables. Without asking whether there might be deeper reasons for such development.
    - YeBanKo 5y ago
      If it is done through a ballot measure, I think it might succeed or at least gain enough traction, that it will shed some lights on what UC spends money on. Every parent is thinking about education. Kids and universities come up all the time. If it’s on the ballot, it will be scrutinized, regardless how it is going to slammed.
- socmovesus 5y ago
  Social narratives change with the generations. Surely he can still teach people. What did everyone expect when all technical knowledge of humanity is on YouTube? That the next generation would pay for knowledge historically artificially restricted to those who were financially viable? The historical origins of college degrees are for rich aristocrats to buy secular degrees, even if they were meaningless, as the public lost faith in claims of divine intervention that gave kings and their heirs power. Secular gibberish the rubes could not falsify. Why does a supposedly secular grand narrative mean anything when there is no root node of the universe? Are facts of science untrue if they’re not discovered in an ivory tower administrated by helicopter parents? The social narrative to break is being labeled a farmer or senator for life. Why should rich first worlders be a afforded stability their nation takes from others? Tough luck, fellow Americans. But you aren’t the center of jack squat and it’s your own inventions and entitlement that brought you down. Just how it goes. Your narratives are not sacrosanct.
a-dub 5y ago
previously: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/why-university-california-dropping-sat/619522/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/why-univer...
TeeMassive 5y ago
About 10 years ago in my old university they had no minimum score because back then Computer Science was still considered a fringe field for geek but I digress. Eventually they had to put a minimum because there was too much low score students draining the professors and tutors time both in and outside class. When Computer Science became mainstream and synonymous with making lots of money then they began to limit places and the problematic students went away.
- farrarstan 5y ago
  lol
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
xyzzyz 5y ago
Arthur Jensen was himself from UC Berkeley. That alone should have made the place a psychometry powerhouse.
DebtDeflation 5y ago
This paragraph made my head spin: >The Smarter Balanced test only provided “modest incremental value” beyond high school grades in predicting a student’s first-year UC performance while “reflecting and reproducing inequality” in educational opportunities for underserved students, committee co-chair Mary Gauvain, a UC Riverside professor, told regents on Thursday. Using the state exam in admissions decisions could benefit some underrepresented students who test well but have lower grades, the committee report found, but would disproportionately favor Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders and could reduce admission rates of Black, Latino and low-income applicants. Every study I've ever seen has shown that high school grades by themselves are a good predictor of 1st year college success; high school grades + standardized test scores are an even better predictor. As noted, the use of standardized tests further benefits some underrepresented students who may have had challenges in high school. So what is the problem here? The only issue listed is that it might benefit Asian applicants more than Black and Latino applicants. Is this really where we are?
- pnutjam 5y ago
  Tests are more easily gamed. It's a tragedy that industries have grown around test prep.
  - mcherm 5y ago
    I understand exactly how easy it is to game standardized tests. However, I find that I do not know how easy it is to game grades. Perhaps that is equally easy, or significantly easier. For example, can one "game" high school grades by moving to a different neighborhood with a "better" school?
    - Ekaros 5y ago
      Standardized tests might be gamed. But still I would argue that gaming them is least worst option. Anything else is either not properly standardized like grades or entirely gamed like extracurriculars, interviews, written works.
  - angelzen 5y ago
sirspacey 5y ago
All of this could be true if the test had zero, or even negative, value in measuring the ability to learn & desire to excel. Picking any test, and curating for those willing to and capable of the work required to pass it, would create this result. That’s the problem with this justification. It doesn’t have a functional limit. “DIY University” covered the history of how this mechanic brought down the Ming dynasty in just a couple generations. Tests can always be justified by non-causal correlation. Assessments ARE the reason why validated methods of learning, like project based learning, are not widely adopted. We have copious amounts of evidence now that teaching to the test is both psychologically harmful & reduces the ability to learn. We will not change our education system until assessments are dethroned. The movement to end assessment is our only hope as a society to stop teaching children based on archaic & wrong ideas about how we learn & develop work ethic. It is a significant factor in why a generation is experiencing alarmingly destructive levels of anxiety on a daily basis. We all have a lot to gain by building education programs where students demonstrate what they learn. Tests are the worst possible option. Check out “Most Likely To Succeed” for powerful alternatives.
- achillesheels 5y ago
  How does one examine the retention of memory in the individual? I agree with the exclusive entrances in regards to exams, but how does one demonstrate knowledge of necessary concepts in order to show one is eligible for progressing in the learning? Tests are a form of qualification. One may have the desire but, if one does not have the aptitude to retain abstract intellectual ideas, how does it benefit anyone for one to be participating in the progress of human knowledge?
eezing 5y ago
Does the SAT cover confirmation bias?
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
> The Task Force found that approximately 25% of low-income, first-generation, and underrepresented minor students earned their guaranteed admission into UC because of test scores. The Task Force’s report showed that test scores are better predictors of success for underrepresented minority students, first-generation students, and those whose families are low- income. Using recent UC-specific data, the Task Force found that test scores remain predictive of success even after student demographics are taken into account. That is especially true when compared to high school grades, whose predictive power has gone down due, in part, to grade inflation. This seems very weasely worded to suggest that standardized testing benefits low income, first-generation and minority students, but since it doesn't actually say that in a straightforward way I'm left feeling that in reality it doesn't. Which would make sense, and is probably the main reason for this change. Am I just being too suspicious?

anonuser123456 5y ago

I have a friend that’s a CSU faculty member in science/engineering. The amount of ideological crap coming down the pipeline is shocking to him… and he’s a pretty liberal guy. But he has a mortgage to pay and dealing with protesting students doesn’t really interest him. He became a professor because he liked teaching, not to become a target.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> he has a mortgage to pay and dealing with protesting students doesn’t really interest him The great irony being it's decisions like this that are undermining support for the University of California. We're not there yet. But a few more of these, and I could see an off-year proposition that dramatically cuts the UC budget.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  And such proposition will be slammed as anti-intellectualism driven by stupid, jealous, greedy deplorables. Without asking whether there might be deeper reasons for such development.
  - YeBanKo 5y ago
    If it is done through a ballot measure, I think it might succeed or at least gain enough traction, that it will shed some lights on what UC spends money on. Every parent is thinking about education. Kids and universities come up all the time. If it’s on the ballot, it will be scrutinized, regardless how it is going to slammed.
socmovesus 5y ago
Social narratives change with the generations. Surely he can still teach people. What did everyone expect when all technical knowledge of humanity is on YouTube? That the next generation would pay for knowledge historically artificially restricted to those who were financially viable? The historical origins of college degrees are for rich aristocrats to buy secular degrees, even if they were meaningless, as the public lost faith in claims of divine intervention that gave kings and their heirs power. Secular gibberish the rubes could not falsify. Why does a supposedly secular grand narrative mean anything when there is no root node of the universe? Are facts of science untrue if they’re not discovered in an ivory tower administrated by helicopter parents? The social narrative to break is being labeled a farmer or senator for life. Why should rich first worlders be a afforded stability their nation takes from others? Tough luck, fellow Americans. But you aren’t the center of jack squat and it’s your own inventions and entitlement that brought you down. Just how it goes. Your narratives are not sacrosanct.

a-dub 5y ago

previously: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/why-university-california-dropping-sat/619522/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/why-univer...

TeeMassive 5y ago

About 10 years ago in my old university they had no minimum score because back then Computer Science was still considered a fringe field for geek but I digress. Eventually they had to put a minimum because there was too much low score students draining the professors and tutors time both in and outside class. When Computer Science became mainstream and synonymous with making lots of money then they began to limit places and the problematic students went away.

farrarstan 5y ago
lol
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

xyzzyz 5y ago

Arthur Jensen was himself from UC Berkeley. That alone should have made the place a psychometry powerhouse.

DebtDeflation 5y ago

This paragraph made my head spin: >The Smarter Balanced test only provided “modest incremental value” beyond high school grades in predicting a student’s first-year UC performance while “reflecting and reproducing inequality” in educational opportunities for underserved students, committee co-chair Mary Gauvain, a UC Riverside professor, told regents on Thursday. Using the state exam in admissions decisions could benefit some underrepresented students who test well but have lower grades, the committee report found, but would disproportionately favor Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders and could reduce admission rates of Black, Latino and low-income applicants. Every study I've ever seen has shown that high school grades by themselves are a good predictor of 1st year college success; high school grades + standardized test scores are an even better predictor. As noted, the use of standardized tests further benefits some underrepresented students who may have had challenges in high school. So what is the problem here? The only issue listed is that it might benefit Asian applicants more than Black and Latino applicants. Is this really where we are?

pnutjam 5y ago
Tests are more easily gamed. It's a tragedy that industries have grown around test prep.
- mcherm 5y ago
  I understand exactly how easy it is to game standardized tests. However, I find that I do not know how easy it is to game grades. Perhaps that is equally easy, or significantly easier. For example, can one "game" high school grades by moving to a different neighborhood with a "better" school?
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    Standardized tests might be gamed. But still I would argue that gaming them is least worst option. Anything else is either not properly standardized like grades or entirely gamed like extracurriculars, interviews, written works.
- angelzen 5y ago

sirspacey 5y ago

All of this could be true if the test had zero, or even negative, value in measuring the ability to learn & desire to excel. Picking any test, and curating for those willing to and capable of the work required to pass it, would create this result. That’s the problem with this justification. It doesn’t have a functional limit. “DIY University” covered the history of how this mechanic brought down the Ming dynasty in just a couple generations. Tests can always be justified by non-causal correlation. Assessments ARE the reason why validated methods of learning, like project based learning, are not widely adopted. We have copious amounts of evidence now that teaching to the test is both psychologically harmful & reduces the ability to learn. We will not change our education system until assessments are dethroned. The movement to end assessment is our only hope as a society to stop teaching children based on archaic & wrong ideas about how we learn & develop work ethic. It is a significant factor in why a generation is experiencing alarmingly destructive levels of anxiety on a daily basis. We all have a lot to gain by building education programs where students demonstrate what they learn. Tests are the worst possible option. Check out “Most Likely To Succeed” for powerful alternatives.

achillesheels 5y ago
How does one examine the retention of memory in the individual? I agree with the exclusive entrances in regards to exams, but how does one demonstrate knowledge of necessary concepts in order to show one is eligible for progressing in the learning? Tests are a form of qualification. One may have the desire but, if one does not have the aptitude to retain abstract intellectual ideas, how does it benefit anyone for one to be participating in the progress of human knowledge?

eezing 5y ago

Does the SAT cover confirmation bias?

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

> The Task Force found that approximately 25% of low-income, first-generation, and underrepresented minor students earned their guaranteed admission into UC because of test scores. The Task Force’s report showed that test scores are better predictors of success for underrepresented minority students, first-generation students, and those whose families are low- income. Using recent UC-specific data, the Task Force found that test scores remain predictive of success even after student demographics are taken into account. That is especially true when compared to high school grades, whose predictive power has gone down due, in part, to grade inflation. This seems very weasely worded to suggest that standardized testing benefits low income, first-generation and minority students, but since it doesn't actually say that in a straightforward way I'm left feeling that in reality it doesn't. Which would make sense, and is probably the main reason for this change. Am I just being too suspicious?