4 ms·

I know it’s not popular here, but unions are a counterweight to political power of corporations. As professionals we’ve been conditioned to “not talk politics”

by dls2016 5y ago

I know it’s not popular here, but unions are a counterweight to political power of corporations. As professionals we’ve been conditioned to “not talk politics” at work… the one place where you engage most with political decisions. But thankfully we as workers have the freedom to pool our money and fund our coworkers to engage in politics on our behalf. Perfect? No. But it seems like the alternative is to throw up our hands and let unelected billionaires hoover up all the senators.

SequoiaHope 5y ago
Unions and also cooperatives. Unions to me are like holding a wolf by the ears. The capitalists don't want to treat their workers right but the union can demand it. Unions don't take start up capital to form so they are a good stopgap, but I see them as a short term solution towards full worker ownership, or ultimately community ownership as even non workers should have a stake in the means of production.
bladegash 5y ago
Collective action and interest groups in general are the counter to lobbyists/political power of corporations. Unions are definitely a form of interest group, but even groups such as AARP, NAACP, NRA, etc., are examples as well.
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  Or in this context, maybe EPIC or EFF.
mr_toad 5y ago
> unions are a counterweight to political power of corporations Unions represent the interests of the workers, not the consumers. Why would a union care about consumer privacy?
- elihu 5y ago
  Unions can care about whatever it is their members care about. Workers often care about not throwing the people who use their products under the bus, or at least those who are paid on salary have a less strong financial incentive to throw people under the bus than shareholders, and thus in many cases may be able and willing to exert a positive influence.
refurb 5y ago
Unions are looking after their workers which goes back to how well the company does. They have zero incentive to protect consumers.
- Angostura 5y ago
  That's a very limited view of how unions operate. They aren't nearly as circumscribed in their activities and campaigns as you suggest.
- wolfv 5y ago
  exhibit A: The Chicken Tax is a 25 percent tariff on light trucks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax#Diplomacy_failure_and_the_UAW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax#Diplomacy_failure_... In January 1964, President Johnson attempted to convince United Auto Workers' president Walter Reuther not to initiate a strike just before the 1964 election and to support the president's civil-rights platform. Reuther, in turn, wanted Johnson to respond to Volkswagen's increased shipments to the United States.[15] The Chicken Tax directly curtailed importation of German-built Volkswagen Type 2s in configurations that qualified them as light trucks.
amitport 5y ago
Strongly disagree. I have many examples where unions are the political force that is part of the (anti consumer / anti citizen) lobby; even stronger than the company's management sometimes. It's a bit naive to think just because the unions serve employees they are some a force that cares about the common good. (They also do not always serve employees well. Same as every elected authority does not always do a good job and often invovle a self-serving small circle).
- mission_failed 5y ago
  So many examples...
- dls2016 5y ago
  Many more examples corporate misbehavior. And yet strong regulations and unions are still some of the best tools we have. (Best does not mean perfect… not being naive.) If you believe in some libertarian ideal of everything being handled by contract law and individuals, then I’m not sure there’s more to discuss.
  - amitport 5y ago
    I agree with storng regulation. Unions become pretty much the same as cooperations (they do not algn with the cooperation interest, but have their own) after a decade or so from their inception. Really not a good tool from the civilian point of view IHMO.
    - dls2016 5y ago
      Having been in the military and worked in universities and corporations… I’m skeptical of any large group of people (grew up Catholic too… churches don’t get off the hook here). But again how else do we solve problems except by collective action? Big groups of flawed people! Democracy is messy but the alternatives are worse.

SequoiaHope 5y ago

Unions and also cooperatives. Unions to me are like holding a wolf by the ears. The capitalists don't want to treat their workers right but the union can demand it. Unions don't take start up capital to form so they are a good stopgap, but I see them as a short term solution towards full worker ownership, or ultimately community ownership as even non workers should have a stake in the means of production.

bladegash 5y ago

Collective action and interest groups in general are the counter to lobbyists/political power of corporations. Unions are definitely a form of interest group, but even groups such as AARP, NAACP, NRA, etc., are examples as well.

AnthonyMouse 5y ago
Or in this context, maybe EPIC or EFF.

mr_toad 5y ago

> unions are a counterweight to political power of corporations Unions represent the interests of the workers, not the consumers. Why would a union care about consumer privacy?

elihu 5y ago
Unions can care about whatever it is their members care about. Workers often care about not throwing the people who use their products under the bus, or at least those who are paid on salary have a less strong financial incentive to throw people under the bus than shareholders, and thus in many cases may be able and willing to exert a positive influence.

refurb 5y ago

Unions are looking after their workers which goes back to how well the company does. They have zero incentive to protect consumers.

Angostura 5y ago
That's a very limited view of how unions operate. They aren't nearly as circumscribed in their activities and campaigns as you suggest.
wolfv 5y ago
exhibit A: The Chicken Tax is a 25 percent tariff on light trucks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax#Diplomacy_failure_and_the_UAW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax#Diplomacy_failure_... In January 1964, President Johnson attempted to convince United Auto Workers' president Walter Reuther not to initiate a strike just before the 1964 election and to support the president's civil-rights platform. Reuther, in turn, wanted Johnson to respond to Volkswagen's increased shipments to the United States.[15] The Chicken Tax directly curtailed importation of German-built Volkswagen Type 2s in configurations that qualified them as light trucks.

amitport 5y ago

Strongly disagree. I have many examples where unions are the political force that is part of the (anti consumer / anti citizen) lobby; even stronger than the company's management sometimes. It's a bit naive to think just because the unions serve employees they are some a force that cares about the common good. (They also do not always serve employees well. Same as every elected authority does not always do a good job and often invovle a self-serving small circle).

mission_failed 5y ago
So many examples...
dls2016 5y ago
Many more examples corporate misbehavior. And yet strong regulations and unions are still some of the best tools we have. (Best does not mean perfect… not being naive.) If you believe in some libertarian ideal of everything being handled by contract law and individuals, then I’m not sure there’s more to discuss.
- amitport 5y ago
  I agree with storng regulation. Unions become pretty much the same as cooperations (they do not algn with the cooperation interest, but have their own) after a decade or so from their inception. Really not a good tool from the civilian point of view IHMO.
  - dls2016 5y ago
    Having been in the military and worked in universities and corporations… I’m skeptical of any large group of people (grew up Catholic too… churches don’t get off the hook here). But again how else do we solve problems except by collective action? Big groups of flawed people! Democracy is messy but the alternatives are worse.