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They're not there for you to like them. They're there so you don't kill someone and someone else doesn't kill you. Society collectively fails to give a single

They're not there for you to like them. They're there so you don't kill someone and someone else doesn't kill you. Society collectively fails to give a single ass of a rat about how people feel about their ubiquitous 2-ton death machine.

necovek 5y ago
As I explained in my another comment on this thread, sometimes they can behave unpredictably — eg. car brakes without a need — causing someone else to crash into you (these are most common crashes I see in the city streets). Perhaps they are not useful for me because I am a very attentive driver (eg. I prefer not to talk on the phone even with the BT hands-free system while driving because it takes my attention away from the road), but they are far away from being all positives. And how many more cars are going to be produced and bought because of "planned obsolescence" when electronic systems in modern cars start to give up (eg. electric cars and their engines should be able to last for a really long time)? Are they going to keep getting security updates for 20, 30 years? Or will we start seeing people doing something to fool their sensors so they crash? While I like all the technology, it's short-sighted to think that the alternative is desired simply because people don't care about potentially hurting someone with their cars. Like everything else in life, this issue is multifaceted too.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > I am a very attentive driver Everyone thinks they're a great driver.
  - necovek 5y ago
    I did not say I am a great driver, but an attentive one. That means that when I drive, I focus on driving. I am sure there are people who can notice the same things I do while paying less attention on the road: that would make them "better" drivers.
    - willis936 5y ago
      The most attentive driver in the world cannot prevent an inattentive driver from T-boning them. Automatic braking can.
      - jjav 5y ago
        There is nothing automatic braking will do to help you from getting T-boned. In fact only an attentive driver can prevent that one. Automatic braking will prevent you from rear-ending the car in front, yes. Although an attentive driver should also be doing that.
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        > Although an attentive driver should also be doing that. Society doesn't allow people to say that they're good enough to opt out of safety mechanisms designed to protect us all. This is why 'I don't wear a seat-belt I can brace myself' also doesn't cut it.
        ThunderSizzle 5y ago
        "safety mechanism" A seatbelt is a safety mechanism. Driving assist functionalities encourage unsafe behaviors of drivers more than safety. Why should I pay attention to the road if my car will automatically brake for me? Well, until the one time it doesn't and someone dies.
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        > Why should I pay attention to the road if my car will automatically brake for me? Was literally an argument people made against seat belts.
        jjav 5y ago
        Absolutely nobody made an argument that they don't want to use seatbelts because then they'll just start crashing all the time. (I'm old enough that seatbelts weren't a thing when I was a kid, so I remember well the arguments when they became common and later required.)
  - coffeefirst 5y ago
    Related, every car company will think it’s software is perfect. In fact they’ll insist on it, because otherwise they’d be treated as responsible should something go wrong.
jjav 5y ago
This assumes that these systems have no drawbacks, which is highly optimistic. The automatic braking seems to be the most dangerous one so far, at least on Teslas. Countless incidents of the car slamming on the brakes at highway speeds for no reason whatsover. Brake checking people at highway speeds is highly dangerous road rager action, now cars are automating behaving like this. Things like auto lane control seem more benign, but they do suffer the same dangers as the so-called autopilots, in that they lull the driver into paying less attention which will always be more dangerous until true AI level 5 self-driving exists.
HWR_14 5y ago
I mean, I think Tesla's autobraking is dangerous and should be made illegal. I think it likely causes more accidents than it avoids. I don't trust the features to work well enough to rely on them. And I think other people having them is dangerous. Meanwhile, they all can be toggled off, so I still won't be using the feature. It's just another point of failure shortening the lifespan of a five-figure environmentally costly purchase.

necovek 5y ago

As I explained in my another comment on this thread, sometimes they can behave unpredictably — eg. car brakes without a need — causing someone else to crash into you (these are most common crashes I see in the city streets). Perhaps they are not useful for me because I am a very attentive driver (eg. I prefer not to talk on the phone even with the BT hands-free system while driving because it takes my attention away from the road), but they are far away from being all positives. And how many more cars are going to be produced and bought because of "planned obsolescence" when electronic systems in modern cars start to give up (eg. electric cars and their engines should be able to last for a really long time)? Are they going to keep getting security updates for 20, 30 years? Or will we start seeing people doing something to fool their sensors so they crash? While I like all the technology, it's short-sighted to think that the alternative is desired simply because people don't care about potentially hurting someone with their cars. Like everything else in life, this issue is multifaceted too.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> I am a very attentive driver Everyone thinks they're a great driver.
- necovek 5y ago
  I did not say I am a great driver, but an attentive one. That means that when I drive, I focus on driving. I am sure there are people who can notice the same things I do while paying less attention on the road: that would make them "better" drivers.
  - willis936 5y ago
    The most attentive driver in the world cannot prevent an inattentive driver from T-boning them. Automatic braking can.
    - jjav 5y ago
      There is nothing automatic braking will do to help you from getting T-boned. In fact only an attentive driver can prevent that one. Automatic braking will prevent you from rear-ending the car in front, yes. Although an attentive driver should also be doing that.
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        > Although an attentive driver should also be doing that. Society doesn't allow people to say that they're good enough to opt out of safety mechanisms designed to protect us all. This is why 'I don't wear a seat-belt I can brace myself' also doesn't cut it.
        ThunderSizzle 5y ago
        "safety mechanism" A seatbelt is a safety mechanism. Driving assist functionalities encourage unsafe behaviors of drivers more than safety. Why should I pay attention to the road if my car will automatically brake for me? Well, until the one time it doesn't and someone dies.
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        > Why should I pay attention to the road if my car will automatically brake for me? Was literally an argument people made against seat belts.
        jjav 5y ago
        Absolutely nobody made an argument that they don't want to use seatbelts because then they'll just start crashing all the time. (I'm old enough that seatbelts weren't a thing when I was a kid, so I remember well the arguments when they became common and later required.)
- coffeefirst 5y ago
  Related, every car company will think it’s software is perfect. In fact they’ll insist on it, because otherwise they’d be treated as responsible should something go wrong.

jjav 5y ago

This assumes that these systems have no drawbacks, which is highly optimistic. The automatic braking seems to be the most dangerous one so far, at least on Teslas. Countless incidents of the car slamming on the brakes at highway speeds for no reason whatsover. Brake checking people at highway speeds is highly dangerous road rager action, now cars are automating behaving like this. Things like auto lane control seem more benign, but they do suffer the same dangers as the so-called autopilots, in that they lull the driver into paying less attention which will always be more dangerous until true AI level 5 self-driving exists.

HWR_14 5y ago

I mean, I think Tesla's autobraking is dangerous and should be made illegal. I think it likely causes more accidents than it avoids. I don't trust the features to work well enough to rely on them. And I think other people having them is dangerous. Meanwhile, they all can be toggled off, so I still won't be using the feature. It's just another point of failure shortening the lifespan of a five-figure environmentally costly purchase.