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Are you suggesting the Russian space program also "piggybacked" on the US government? Is it not possible that SpaceX did what they did not because of the US go

Are you suggesting the Russian space program also "piggybacked" on the US government? Is it not possible that SpaceX did what they did not because of the US government, but in fact, in _spite_ of it? You may have this completely backwards.

Rebelgecko 5y ago
Obviously the USSR and Russia space program is world-class. But they clearly took some cues from NASA*, albeit sometimes due to political pressure. Just look at Buran- Brezhnev started the program as a direct response to the US Space Shuttle. The KGB and VPK spent a fortune hoovering up documents about the shuttle, and the resulting vehicle had clear similarities. *And there have obviously been times where NASA drew on their work
- panick21_ 5y ago
  Yeah but the actual rocket scientists didn't want anything to do with it. They basically said 'clearly this shuttle thing makes no sense what so ever for space flight, the only reason it could exist is to nuke us'. The Russians built their own because politicians wanted to match it. Soviet engineers were clever and put built the rocket in a way where they could use it without the Orbiter and make the system much more useful then the Shuttle ever was. But that was late in the game really, for the most part, in terms of engines the Soviets kicked the US ass.
simonh 5y ago
The USSR/Russia had it's own many decades long R&D programmes. We know for a fact SpaceX has benefited from NASA expertise because Elon has said so repeatedly and often, and the experienced designers and engineers he hired in the early days, some of whom are still there, cut their teeth in "old space". That's aside form the fact that much of what SpaceX has done has depended on NASA funding, including the couple of billion for lunar Starship.
- jhgb 5y ago
  And yet, weirdly enough, despite NASA's expertise, the launch vehicle most similar to Falcon 9 is...Russian Zenit.
  - simonh 5y ago
    Much of the technical assistance they got from NASA was on things like materials, techniques, testing, processes and such.
boringg 5y ago
Didn't say anything about Russia, but certainly they did - competitors emulate. So in terms of your SpaceX comment: They are certainly pushing the frontier on the heavy lifting of the decades of research and projects from the national research labs and NASA. The US government doesn't (afaik) have a mission to populate and develop mars - so that opening is available for Elon to pursue.

Rebelgecko 5y ago

Obviously the USSR and Russia space program is world-class. But they clearly took some cues from NASA*, albeit sometimes due to political pressure. Just look at Buran- Brezhnev started the program as a direct response to the US Space Shuttle. The KGB and VPK spent a fortune hoovering up documents about the shuttle, and the resulting vehicle had clear similarities. *And there have obviously been times where NASA drew on their work

panick21_ 5y ago
Yeah but the actual rocket scientists didn't want anything to do with it. They basically said 'clearly this shuttle thing makes no sense what so ever for space flight, the only reason it could exist is to nuke us'. The Russians built their own because politicians wanted to match it. Soviet engineers were clever and put built the rocket in a way where they could use it without the Orbiter and make the system much more useful then the Shuttle ever was. But that was late in the game really, for the most part, in terms of engines the Soviets kicked the US ass.

simonh 5y ago

The USSR/Russia had it's own many decades long R&D programmes. We know for a fact SpaceX has benefited from NASA expertise because Elon has said so repeatedly and often, and the experienced designers and engineers he hired in the early days, some of whom are still there, cut their teeth in "old space". That's aside form the fact that much of what SpaceX has done has depended on NASA funding, including the couple of billion for lunar Starship.

jhgb 5y ago
And yet, weirdly enough, despite NASA's expertise, the launch vehicle most similar to Falcon 9 is...Russian Zenit.
- simonh 5y ago
  Much of the technical assistance they got from NASA was on things like materials, techniques, testing, processes and such.

boringg 5y ago

Didn't say anything about Russia, but certainly they did - competitors emulate. So in terms of your SpaceX comment: They are certainly pushing the frontier on the heavy lifting of the decades of research and projects from the national research labs and NASA. The US government doesn't (afaik) have a mission to populate and develop mars - so that opening is available for Elon to pursue.