8 ms·

Oh yeah? Ever tried to send funds to a family member on the other side of the world over a weekend?

coding123 5y ago
Not on the other side of the world but my parents send me through Zelle and works pretty easily - hits the account same day.
- tata71 5y ago
  I tried Zelle the other day to send a payment. New user? Payment frozen, no recourse until Monday morning on a Friday, late afternoon. I'll stick with Coinbase, if I want centralized risk.
- mikegreenberg 5y ago
  FWIW, cryptocurrency settles in seconds.
  - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
    https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/how-long-does-a-bitcoin-transaction-take https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/how-long-does-a... > On the Bitcoin network, the average confirmation time for a BTC payment is about 10 minutes. However, transaction times can vary wildly. This is because it is affected by factors such as the total network activity, hashrate and transaction fees. If the Bitcoin network is congested, there will be a backlog of transactions in the mempool. This would result users paying more in transaction fees to get transactions to go through faster. This occured in April 2021, where average Bitcoin transaction fees reached $59.
    - mikegreenberg 5y ago
      I'm familiar with cryptocurrencies. I did not say Bitcoin. One counterexample isn't representative of current options. There are plenty of coins which clear in seconds.
rvnx 5y ago
Western Union, cash money in minutes in nearly all over the world ?
- tata71 5y ago
  Fees, lack of security, in person?!, etc
- joshfraser 5y ago
  They're not open at night. They take egregious fees, often up to 20% on the exchange rate. You can't send more than $2,500 online. And who wants to stand in line, fill out paperwork, or walk around with large sums of cash? If that exploitative company is the best example you've got, I rest my case.
  - throwaway2037 5y ago
    You wrote: <<They take egregious fees, often up to 20% on the exchange rate.>> I find this hard to believe. Can you please demonstrate a single transaction with this fee?
    - jacobr1 5y ago
      They usually have both a flat-rate transition fee, and some spread they take on top of whatever open market exchange rate would otherwise be. For small transactions, you can have things like a $29 fee, for a $500 transaction, where the spread is also taking a 1% cut. You also can find $2.99 transactions. It depends on the source of funds and destination. Also if you are doing something like using a credit card as the source of funds, you might get cash-advance fees (and much worse interest rates).
    - joshfraser 5y ago
      Source: https://www.finder.com/western-union-international-money-transfer https://www.finder.com/western-union-international-money-tra... I've never used Western Union personally, so don't listen to me. Listen to their customer reviews: https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/westernunion.com https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/westernunion.com
lottin 5y ago
The reason financial transactions take time is not that there's something wrong with the technology, but that we, as society, have chosen to establish capital controls. Choosing to evade such controls, without really understanding why we put them there in the first place, basically makes you an anti-social brat.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  > ...we, as society, have chosen to establish capital controls. Obviously that's not the case if entire societies use bitcoin now, as soon as it is an option. We didn't choose the mess, it was foisted upon us. You can make excuses for the current system if you want to, but you're wrong. You can shame people tired of paying a quarter of their pay to western union to help Tia afford a water tank so she can have running water during the weekdays. You can demand people just follow rules that make no sense to them because "we as a society" have Good Reasons™ for them. But if you expect them to, if you act like their behavior makes no sense, you're deluding yourself and nobody else.
  - lottin 5y ago
    > We didn't choose the mess, it was foisted upon us. What mess? Borders and customs? Yes, we chose that.
    - betwixthewires 5y ago
      Are you being obtuse deliberately? First, no, most people didn't choose borders and customs. The very people we are talking about, the people that send money home, and their advocates, often ignore borders deliberately. I don't recall choosing any of that stuff. I don't think there's a person alive today that did. But that aside, we aren't talking about someone checking your luggage for fruit seeds on the way in. You know damn well what mess I'm referring to, because you've spent however long in this thread defending it like none of the problems people point out exist.
      - lottin 5y ago

Not on the other side of the world but my parents send me through Zelle and works pretty easily - hits the account same day.

tata71 5y ago
I tried Zelle the other day to send a payment. New user? Payment frozen, no recourse until Monday morning on a Friday, late afternoon. I'll stick with Coinbase, if I want centralized risk.
mikegreenberg 5y ago
FWIW, cryptocurrency settles in seconds.
- NikolaeVarius 5y ago
  https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/how-long-does-a-bitcoin-transaction-take https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/how-long-does-a... > On the Bitcoin network, the average confirmation time for a BTC payment is about 10 minutes. However, transaction times can vary wildly. This is because it is affected by factors such as the total network activity, hashrate and transaction fees. If the Bitcoin network is congested, there will be a backlog of transactions in the mempool. This would result users paying more in transaction fees to get transactions to go through faster. This occured in April 2021, where average Bitcoin transaction fees reached $59.
  - mikegreenberg 5y ago
    I'm familiar with cryptocurrencies. I did not say Bitcoin. One counterexample isn't representative of current options. There are plenty of coins which clear in seconds.

rvnx 5y ago

Western Union, cash money in minutes in nearly all over the world ?

tata71 5y ago
Fees, lack of security, in person?!, etc
joshfraser 5y ago
They're not open at night. They take egregious fees, often up to 20% on the exchange rate. You can't send more than $2,500 online. And who wants to stand in line, fill out paperwork, or walk around with large sums of cash? If that exploitative company is the best example you've got, I rest my case.
- throwaway2037 5y ago
  You wrote: <<They take egregious fees, often up to 20% on the exchange rate.>> I find this hard to believe. Can you please demonstrate a single transaction with this fee?
  - jacobr1 5y ago
    They usually have both a flat-rate transition fee, and some spread they take on top of whatever open market exchange rate would otherwise be. For small transactions, you can have things like a $29 fee, for a $500 transaction, where the spread is also taking a 1% cut. You also can find $2.99 transactions. It depends on the source of funds and destination. Also if you are doing something like using a credit card as the source of funds, you might get cash-advance fees (and much worse interest rates).
  - joshfraser 5y ago
    Source: https://www.finder.com/western-union-international-money-transfer https://www.finder.com/western-union-international-money-tra... I've never used Western Union personally, so don't listen to me. Listen to their customer reviews: https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/westernunion.com https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/westernunion.com

lottin 5y ago

The reason financial transactions take time is not that there's something wrong with the technology, but that we, as society, have chosen to establish capital controls. Choosing to evade such controls, without really understanding why we put them there in the first place, basically makes you an anti-social brat.

betwixthewires 5y ago
> ...we, as society, have chosen to establish capital controls. Obviously that's not the case if entire societies use bitcoin now, as soon as it is an option. We didn't choose the mess, it was foisted upon us. You can make excuses for the current system if you want to, but you're wrong. You can shame people tired of paying a quarter of their pay to western union to help Tia afford a water tank so she can have running water during the weekdays. You can demand people just follow rules that make no sense to them because "we as a society" have Good Reasons™ for them. But if you expect them to, if you act like their behavior makes no sense, you're deluding yourself and nobody else.
- lottin 5y ago
  > We didn't choose the mess, it was foisted upon us. What mess? Borders and customs? Yes, we chose that.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    Are you being obtuse deliberately? First, no, most people didn't choose borders and customs. The very people we are talking about, the people that send money home, and their advocates, often ignore borders deliberately. I don't recall choosing any of that stuff. I don't think there's a person alive today that did. But that aside, we aren't talking about someone checking your luggage for fruit seeds on the way in. You know damn well what mess I'm referring to, because you've spent however long in this thread defending it like none of the problems people point out exist.
    - lottin 5y ago