5 ms·

Under affirmative action is a hypothesis: that it reduces inequality among communities. Has the application of affirmative action been measured and compared to

by skulk 5y ago

Under affirmative action is a hypothesis: that it reduces inequality among communities. Has the application of affirmative action been measured and compared to its outcomes? It's been a thing for about 50 years now, so I'd like to see some data.

bdamm 5y ago
Didn't the Supreme Court of the United States rule that it had been effective, with their primary evidence being the election of Barak Obama? That's not a study but in terms of legal doctrine it seems to be a settled issue.
- aerostable_slug 5y ago
  I'm not sure I take your meaning. Would you mind elaborating (not kidding - I don't quite get it)?
  - bdamm 5y ago
    Here is a report on the ruling: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jun/25/supreme-court-voting-rights-act-obama https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jun/25/supreme-court-vo...
- Jensson 5y ago
  Most of the discrimination seems to be against slave descendants. Barack Obama is the son of an educated African immigrant, African immigrants are doing very well in USA, about as well as Asian immigrants, so he is a part of the model minority and not the discriminated minority.
  - bdamm 5y ago
    I'm not saying it's right. I'm only saying that the supreme court has ruled on it. Frankly I think such a basis is completely absurd. We'd need to have at least four more black presidents to really show it's effectiveness. RBG once said that only once the Supreme Court happened to be entirely women would we know that we have achieved parity. And she's right!
- todd8 5y ago
  Perhaps you're thinking of Grutter v. Bollinger (2003) a case concerning affirmative action in admissions exercised by the University of Michigan Law School. The Supreme Court decided that favoring underrepresented minority groups did not violate the 14th amendment equal protection clause. Writing for the majority, Sandra Day O'conor said "race-conscious admissions policies must be limited in time," and said that the Court believed that in 25 years that limit might be reached. Ruth Bader Ginsburg agreed with the ruling but not with having a time limit. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know what I'm talking about, so I suggest seeing the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grutter_v._Bollinger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grutter_v._Bollinger
  - bdamm 5y ago
    I'm thinking of this ruling: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jun/25/supreme-court-voting-rights-act-obama https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jun/25/supreme-court-vo...
newbamboo 5y ago
I think that’s antiquated honestly. I don’t hear that justification given now, as it was decades ago. I hear more talk of “justice” and increasing diversity merely for its own sake rather than as a means to and end. Whereas the original intent was lowering the importance of race and sex in life outcomes, I don’t think anyone would espouse such a goal today. Being “color blind” has become a pejorative in the parlance of today. Wanting a color blind society, one where a persons sex is of little concern, is derided as the hallmark of racial and sexual privilege, something in need of reform. It’s hard to pinpoint where this change occur. Maybe it was doomed from the outset and racism to end racism doesn’t actually work.

by skulk 5y ago

bdamm 5y ago

Didn't the Supreme Court of the United States rule that it had been effective, with their primary evidence being the election of Barak Obama? That's not a study but in terms of legal doctrine it seems to be a settled issue.

aerostable_slug 5y ago
I'm not sure I take your meaning. Would you mind elaborating (not kidding - I don't quite get it)?
- bdamm 5y ago
  Here is a report on the ruling: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jun/25/supreme-court-voting-rights-act-obama https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jun/25/supreme-court-vo...
Jensson 5y ago
Most of the discrimination seems to be against slave descendants. Barack Obama is the son of an educated African immigrant, African immigrants are doing very well in USA, about as well as Asian immigrants, so he is a part of the model minority and not the discriminated minority.
- bdamm 5y ago
  I'm not saying it's right. I'm only saying that the supreme court has ruled on it. Frankly I think such a basis is completely absurd. We'd need to have at least four more black presidents to really show it's effectiveness. RBG once said that only once the Supreme Court happened to be entirely women would we know that we have achieved parity. And she's right!
todd8 5y ago
Perhaps you're thinking of Grutter v. Bollinger (2003) a case concerning affirmative action in admissions exercised by the University of Michigan Law School. The Supreme Court decided that favoring underrepresented minority groups did not violate the 14th amendment equal protection clause. Writing for the majority, Sandra Day O'conor said "race-conscious admissions policies must be limited in time," and said that the Court believed that in 25 years that limit might be reached. Ruth Bader Ginsburg agreed with the ruling but not with having a time limit. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know what I'm talking about, so I suggest seeing the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grutter_v._Bollinger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grutter_v._Bollinger
- bdamm 5y ago
  I'm thinking of this ruling: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jun/25/supreme-court-voting-rights-act-obama https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jun/25/supreme-court-vo...

newbamboo 5y ago

I think that’s antiquated honestly. I don’t hear that justification given now, as it was decades ago. I hear more talk of “justice” and increasing diversity merely for its own sake rather than as a means to and end. Whereas the original intent was lowering the importance of race and sex in life outcomes, I don’t think anyone would espouse such a goal today. Being “color blind” has become a pejorative in the parlance of today. Wanting a color blind society, one where a persons sex is of little concern, is derided as the hallmark of racial and sexual privilege, something in need of reform. It’s hard to pinpoint where this change occur. Maybe it was doomed from the outset and racism to end racism doesn’t actually work.