4 ms·

By talking about policies that uplift the poor generally. And worker friendly policies all around. If more black people are poor, then more black people will b

By talking about policies that uplift the poor generally. And worker friendly policies all around. If more black people are poor, then more black people will be helped by such policies. If we want to help the poor, let's help the poor. If we only help the "black poor" we have to precisely codify what being black is, and I'm sick of such race science. The argument that being black implies the need of additional help is even _further_ condescending.

whimsicalism 5y ago
> If more black people are poor, then more black people will be helped by such policies. If we want to help the poor, let's help the poor. But I don't think the causes of poverty are universal, and for lots of black people, they are racially driven. Discussing policies around the "poor generally" while banning discussion of race means abdicating any attempts at integrating schools, means that it is impossible to address discrimination against pepole with black sounding names (50% less likely to get a callback), means that it is impossible to discuss ongoing discrimination in the housing market (rampant, https://projects.newsday.com/long-island/real-estate-agents-investigation/ https://projects.newsday.com/long-island/real-estate-agents-... is a great resource if you want to see what racism in the urban US in the 21st century looks like). None of those problems - all of which are likely large proximate causes for the racial disparities here - could be addressed if we are only allowed to talk about class and not race. No compelling reason for why any discussion of race should be taboo has been provided. If the people who are discussing race in this manner are the "most racist", they're doing a pretty bad job at it given the massive disparities benefiting white poeple in pretty much all sectors of society in the country. It seems ridiculous to me that the solution is to stop discussing race at all in a country that had legally enshrined anti-black discrimination within living memory.
- Jensson 5y ago
  > It seems ridiculous to me that the solution is to stop discussing race at all in a country that had legally enshrined anti-black discrimination within living memory. You can make it illegal to discriminate against black people without creating a race database of every single worker in the country. Requiring every employer to ask every applicant "what kind of human race are you?" is so dumb that you can't make that up, asking applicants what race they are should be illegal but instead USA requires you to do it! That is like requiring every employer to ask every woman if they are pregnant or not and then report those statistics to the government, since how else can you ensure that pregnant women aren't discriminated against? It is almost as if the policy was made to encourage discrimination and white supremacy, but it is fine since you say you do it for good!
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    Not going to continue arguing because I think my point has been clear. I think it is telling on HN that many seem more up in arms around the reporting requirements stemming from the 1964 Civil Rights act than any of the huge racial disparities I've identified above. Given that the government has not been able to do anything about rampant racial discrimination in the real estate space, I am unsure how you think the government could do better if it can't even consider the race of employees or customers when making an equal opportunity case.
    - Jensson 5y ago
      Everyone knows that the employer discriminates against you based on what race you select in the survey you have to fill in. Black people have to constantly lie about or deny their race or get discriminated against before people even see that they are black. I don't care what reason you say you have, that is a horrible practice that just makes the race problem you have worse. I am certain that racism would be less of an issue if you didn't give racists such a powerful tool to both keep themselves relevant and to discriminate as they please. It is much harder to do anything if you don't even get called in for an interview.

whimsicalism 5y ago

> If more black people are poor, then more black people will be helped by such policies. If we want to help the poor, let's help the poor. But I don't think the causes of poverty are universal, and for lots of black people, they are racially driven. Discussing policies around the "poor generally" while banning discussion of race means abdicating any attempts at integrating schools, means that it is impossible to address discrimination against pepole with black sounding names (50% less likely to get a callback), means that it is impossible to discuss ongoing discrimination in the housing market (rampant, https://projects.newsday.com/long-island/real-estate-agents-investigation/ https://projects.newsday.com/long-island/real-estate-agents-... is a great resource if you want to see what racism in the urban US in the 21st century looks like). None of those problems - all of which are likely large proximate causes for the racial disparities here - could be addressed if we are only allowed to talk about class and not race. No compelling reason for why any discussion of race should be taboo has been provided. If the people who are discussing race in this manner are the "most racist", they're doing a pretty bad job at it given the massive disparities benefiting white poeple in pretty much all sectors of society in the country. It seems ridiculous to me that the solution is to stop discussing race at all in a country that had legally enshrined anti-black discrimination within living memory.

Jensson 5y ago
> It seems ridiculous to me that the solution is to stop discussing race at all in a country that had legally enshrined anti-black discrimination within living memory. You can make it illegal to discriminate against black people without creating a race database of every single worker in the country. Requiring every employer to ask every applicant "what kind of human race are you?" is so dumb that you can't make that up, asking applicants what race they are should be illegal but instead USA requires you to do it! That is like requiring every employer to ask every woman if they are pregnant or not and then report those statistics to the government, since how else can you ensure that pregnant women aren't discriminated against? It is almost as if the policy was made to encourage discrimination and white supremacy, but it is fine since you say you do it for good!
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  Not going to continue arguing because I think my point has been clear. I think it is telling on HN that many seem more up in arms around the reporting requirements stemming from the 1964 Civil Rights act than any of the huge racial disparities I've identified above. Given that the government has not been able to do anything about rampant racial discrimination in the real estate space, I am unsure how you think the government could do better if it can't even consider the race of employees or customers when making an equal opportunity case.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    Everyone knows that the employer discriminates against you based on what race you select in the survey you have to fill in. Black people have to constantly lie about or deny their race or get discriminated against before people even see that they are black. I don't care what reason you say you have, that is a horrible practice that just makes the race problem you have worse. I am certain that racism would be less of an issue if you didn't give racists such a powerful tool to both keep themselves relevant and to discriminate as they please. It is much harder to do anything if you don't even get called in for an interview.