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This is necessary, but how do you expect people to do this when a lot of climate solutions puts them out of work? We need a coordinated effort that addresses th

This is necessary, but how do you expect people to do this when a lot of climate solutions puts them out of work? We need a coordinated effort that addresses the immediate economic problems of the working class created by taking serious climate action, because that’s where a lot of the resistance comes from, among voters. Somebody who has worked their whole life mining coal can’t suddenly pivot to working in a battery or solar panel factory without very specific conditions being met by the economy and regulators. To say otherwise is handwaving.

mental1896 5y ago
If being put out of work could be made to be less of a dire situation for the worker, some of these climate solutions might still be viable.
3pt14159 5y ago
For me, this type of reasoning goes out the window when the way someone makes their living is actively hurting millions of people. I'm not quite callous, I think we should help them transition to a new line of work, of course, but don't expect me to have a whole lot of sympathy for people who actively poison the air for a living. Their line of work is literally killing people. Nuclear power is not so expensive. Especially for westerners. We got rid of coal power where I live: https://www.ontario.ca/page/end-coal https://www.ontario.ca/page/end-coal It can be done and the stakes here are too high for this handwringing. We didn't let slave ship workers stop emancipation from happening.
javajosh 5y ago
What if "putting them out of work" is actually a viable solution? Keynes thought we'd have short work-lives by now, and given the productivity gains in every industry, he should be right. It's not like that because those productivity gains have gone to the owners of industry. This subject is quite close to home to the HN crowd, since software is capable of replacing a large number of human workers. Not even with AI, just by simplifying and streamlining paperwork-heavy administrative tasks. And yet our industry does nothing to protect the people who's work we displace. Of course, there is still lots of work to do, even if you don't have a job, taking care of yourself and your family. Plus, if we extend the notion of family, an aging population is going to need lots of labor-intensive help, so that's something else they can do.
readonthegoapp 5y ago
the Green New Deal (GND) (now mostly dead) included a lot of real support for oil workers and others who would lose their jobs without this plan -- so, since we didn't get the GND, I would presume a lot of these folks will be losing jobs, but presumably a bunch of them will get jobs to help destroy the planet in other ways -- building highways, etc. https://berniesanders.com/issues/green-new-deal/ https://berniesanders.com/issues/green-new-deal/ A just transition for workers. This plan will prioritize the fossil fuel workers who have powered our economy for more than a century and who have too often been neglected by corporations and politicians. We will guarantee five years of a worker’s current salary, housing assistance, job training, health care, pension support, and priority job placement for any displaced worker, as well as early retirement support for those who choose it or can no longer work.

mental1896 5y ago

If being put out of work could be made to be less of a dire situation for the worker, some of these climate solutions might still be viable.

3pt14159 5y ago

For me, this type of reasoning goes out the window when the way someone makes their living is actively hurting millions of people. I'm not quite callous, I think we should help them transition to a new line of work, of course, but don't expect me to have a whole lot of sympathy for people who actively poison the air for a living. Their line of work is literally killing people. Nuclear power is not so expensive. Especially for westerners. We got rid of coal power where I live: https://www.ontario.ca/page/end-coal https://www.ontario.ca/page/end-coal It can be done and the stakes here are too high for this handwringing. We didn't let slave ship workers stop emancipation from happening.

javajosh 5y ago

What if "putting them out of work" is actually a viable solution? Keynes thought we'd have short work-lives by now, and given the productivity gains in every industry, he should be right. It's not like that because those productivity gains have gone to the owners of industry. This subject is quite close to home to the HN crowd, since software is capable of replacing a large number of human workers. Not even with AI, just by simplifying and streamlining paperwork-heavy administrative tasks. And yet our industry does nothing to protect the people who's work we displace. Of course, there is still lots of work to do, even if you don't have a job, taking care of yourself and your family. Plus, if we extend the notion of family, an aging population is going to need lots of labor-intensive help, so that's something else they can do.

readonthegoapp 5y ago

the Green New Deal (GND) (now mostly dead) included a lot of real support for oil workers and others who would lose their jobs without this plan -- so, since we didn't get the GND, I would presume a lot of these folks will be losing jobs, but presumably a bunch of them will get jobs to help destroy the planet in other ways -- building highways, etc. https://berniesanders.com/issues/green-new-deal/ https://berniesanders.com/issues/green-new-deal/ A just transition for workers. This plan will prioritize the fossil fuel workers who have powered our economy for more than a century and who have too often been neglected by corporations and politicians. We will guarantee five years of a worker’s current salary, housing assistance, job training, health care, pension support, and priority job placement for any displaced worker, as well as early retirement support for those who choose it or can no longer work.