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I agree with much of your sentiment, but a top down approach with government regulations is absolutely necessary to assist with stopping harmful emissions and p

I agree with much of your sentiment, but a top down approach with government regulations is absolutely necessary to assist with stopping harmful emissions and pollution. It's extremely difficult to tell everyone to walk to McDonalds to not waste gas and to not grab a plastic straw. Most everyone will not follow through with those requests when McDonalds is quite literally giving it away straws for free and gas vehicles are so readily available. But if you force McDonalds to use a recycled paper lid that doesn't require a straw, and force their suppliers to deliver those products with electric vehicles, and we force car manufacturers to only produce electric vehicles: then we can stop the emissions and waste generation at the source. People will have no choice but to take more green options if thats all that is available to them.

cuzBchain 5y ago
The top down government will have no choice but to change the rules if collective public indifference to going to work took over It’s a standoff and the government is full of old people who know they’ll die sooner than later They’re nihilists not principled people
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
The trouble is governments don't have the stomach for a top down approach either. Where does that leave us?
el_oni 5y ago
Yes, absolutly, it needs to come from the top down as well as the bottom up. In a world where we give subsidies to polluters which artificially decreases the price, it makes it harder for consumers to make the right choice. If we instead subsidised green industries and technologies, we could artificially lower the price of making the right choice.
hackeraccount 5y ago
Government regulation produces things like CAFE and Energy Star. They can work to some degree but the incentive to create back doors around them (I don't drive a car I drive a light truck) is enormous - doubly so because people have no commitment to the principle they try and serve because they aren't asked to have any commitment instead government tries to trick people to go along with the principle. I'm buying an energy efficient furnace that costs more then it otherwise might because those are the only furnaces available to be purchased. It can work but only to a limited degree, if you really push the thing then it becomes more likely that people will catch on to the "trick" and elect people who will undo it. They'll do that happily because there's no commitment.

cuzBchain 5y ago

The top down government will have no choice but to change the rules if collective public indifference to going to work took over It’s a standoff and the government is full of old people who know they’ll die sooner than later They’re nihilists not principled people

tonyedgecombe 5y ago

The trouble is governments don't have the stomach for a top down approach either. Where does that leave us?

el_oni 5y ago

Yes, absolutly, it needs to come from the top down as well as the bottom up. In a world where we give subsidies to polluters which artificially decreases the price, it makes it harder for consumers to make the right choice. If we instead subsidised green industries and technologies, we could artificially lower the price of making the right choice.

hackeraccount 5y ago

Government regulation produces things like CAFE and Energy Star. They can work to some degree but the incentive to create back doors around them (I don't drive a car I drive a light truck) is enormous - doubly so because people have no commitment to the principle they try and serve because they aren't asked to have any commitment instead government tries to trick people to go along with the principle. I'm buying an energy efficient furnace that costs more then it otherwise might because those are the only furnaces available to be purchased. It can work but only to a limited degree, if you really push the thing then it becomes more likely that people will catch on to the "trick" and elect people who will undo it. They'll do that happily because there's no commitment.