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Adults who microdose psychedelics report lower levels of depression and anxiety [pdf]
- pkulak 5y agoThere was a really good Reply All about this. Not gonna spoil it: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/2oh933 https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/2oh933
- MikeKusold 5y agoAnd famously there was the Iterable CEO that was fired for microdosing: https://fortune.com/2021/04/28/justin-zhu-iterable-lsd-microdosing-andrew-boni/ https://fortune.com/2021/04/28/justin-zhu-iterable-lsd-micro...
- sanketpatrikar 5y agoHow long before this gets serious consideration and a cure for "depression" becomes available?
- lvass 5y agoThat's the only thing left until our World is indistinguishable from a Brave New one.
- more_corn 5y agoThere was a quite promising study treating depression with psychedelics. Study precipitants reported 3 months of relief from a single dose. I think it was paired with therapy. One study is hardly conclusive. I'd love to see more of those studies.
- dfxm12 5y agoAs long as the US continues the war on drugs, maybe 2 or 3 generations, based on how marijuana research is playing out.
- hbn 5y agoIf a cure for depression was ever found, you'd be fighting a lot of very rich and very powerful companies with a vested interest in keeping people on their products forever
- createunderrate 5y agoNever. While helpful, this is not a cure.
- ChipSkylark 5y agoI'm not a doctor or health professional of any kind. But my friend showed me a study a while back of turmeric supplementation and how it can be comparable and in some cases more effective than prozac: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23832433/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23832433/ I started taking 450-900mg daily and noticed an increase in optimistic perspective and seeing "the point" of doing things during rut of burnout after quitting my last job. Just my story. This is not health advice.
- r1ch 5y agoBe careful, turmeric can sometimes be adulterated with lead chromate to give it a more vibrant orange color. Make sure you buy from reputable places that test it if supplementing.
- hidden-spyder 5y agoWould adding it to food have the same effect?
- ranger_danger 5y agoProbably forever because there's no money in cures.
- root_axis 5y agoVery skeptical. How can one possibly trust self reported "microdosing" for something like LSD where a normal dose is on the order of tens of micrograms? Not to mention that self reported users can't be relied upon to reliably determine the provenance or quality of what they're ingesting. There are similar issues involved with something like mushrooms where freshness, natural concentration, and mode of preparation are all major factors on the drug's effects.
- aseerdbnarng 5y agoPeople who seek out drugs are not a good proxy for the general population
- vadfa 5y agoA microdoser is not an average drug-seeker.
- jollybean 5y ago"A microdoser is not an average drug-seeker." They are not an average anything, i.e. not representative of anything really, which is the OP's point.
- realce 5y agoIt's not even factually true - 66% of the US population is on a prescription drug. The average citizen is a "drug seeker" of some type.
- jollybean 5y agoFirst, even if your statement was correct, it would say nothing about the OP (or my) issues of selective sampling. Second, people who receive medicine for their ailments are not 'drug seekers' by any stretch of the imagination. People do not 'seek' blood thinners arbitrarily, people seek drugs which provide some kind of physical or psychoactive experience i.e. cocaine, opiods, thc. Very few prescription drugs fit that category.
- realce 5y agoI sincerely disagree with your somewhat puritanical definition of drug seeking. If someone seeks marijuana to relieve their misery, it's "arbitrary drug seeking behaviour" but if it's blood thinners, then you're just... not looking for drugs to provide a cure? That makes no sense. I certainly do seek out blood thinners, antidepressants, antibiotics, ect, if I am suffering from illnesses that they provide relief for. Nobody seeks out drugs "arbitrarily" whatsoever. You seem to think that people who use narcotics to address their pain aren't worthy of a medical definition that is reserved for people who obtain their medication from a pharma company. It's plain cognitive dissonance.
- OneTimePetes 5y agoAdults who are addicted report anything positive to keep the substance flowing?
- monkeybutton 5y agoPsychedelic drugs are not known to be addictive?
- lvass 5y agoDid you ask a question or mistype a question mark?
- throwamon 5y agoIt's relatively common to end an affirmative sentence with a question mark when your intent is to say something you consider to be clearly right, as opposed to the thing you're replying to, which you consider to be clearly wrong.
- lvass 5y agoI happened to search what it could mean before you answered and got many conflicting answers like yours and [0]. I guess we can only know what the author meant here if he clarifies it himself. [0] https://english.stackexchange.com/a/5620 https://english.stackexchange.com/a/5620
- monkeybutton 5y agoWhat I said is a statement, not a question. The question mark is not a mistake. What else could it indicate if not a question? Perhaps it was marking my general sense of confusion in response to the original comment. Or it could also be adding a hint of sarcasm. What would you like me say? Do you not approve of my use of it? Throwamon's explanation is good too. When someone asks a question with an obvious affirmative answer, a popular answer is an inquisitive "yes?". Only the thing being questioned in that case isn't the answer, its the doubt in the mind of the speaker who asked.
- dqpb 5y agoI would be more interested to hear the thoughts of the children of adults who microdose psychedelics. I imagine they would be the best guage of the total net effect.
- awillen 5y agoChris Rock had a good bit about this a couple of decades ago with alcohol and marijuana. To paraphrase, if you want to figure out which is worse, just ask the kids if they'd rather have daddy come home drunk or stoned. Drunk daddy yells and stumbles around and breaks stuff and throws up. Stoned daddy giggles at cartoons and orders pizza.
- airstrike 5y agoCan daddy come home sober, please?
- cwkoss 5y agoI've seen several anecdotes from stay at home parents who microdose psilocybin and say it helps them better connect and play with their children sincerely. I think it's plausible it could facilitate the development of deeper emotional bonds and empathy in some cases. Certainly worthy of study with some reasonable controls.
- belval 5y agoTo me, this study has a few "smells" that makes it dubious: > We collected cross-sectional data between November 2019 and July 2020 from self-selected respondents recruited via media related to psychedelic use such as podcasts and online psychedelic research conference presentations. This is already a significant bias in participants. > Mental health was assessed with the questions “Do you currently have any psychological, mental health or addiction concerns?” Participants who endorsed concerns identified specific mental health and substance use categories from a drop down menu, and were allowed to select more than one category So mental health is not actually accessed medically and simply self-reported. To be clear I lack an informed opinion on microdosing psychedelics, but any study that picks its participant from a community engaging in X to study X but then uses the same community to sample their control group (for lack of a better expression) is questionable. EDIT: Page 6 has a table that compare microdosers/non-microdosers and the latter was actually less likely to self-report *any* mental health or substance use problem by 5%. It's only when using the DASS-21 subscales that they can draw the conclusion that non-microdosers are more anxious, depressed or stressed. Their microdosers/non-microdosers ratio is also almost 1:1.
- 5faulker 5y agoRegardless the result, the point here is that this is an idea worth looking into.
- monktastic1 5y agoThe question here is whether the paper supports the idea that it's worth looking into. Your parent comment suggests that it doesn't (or at least, doesn't strongly).
- someonewhocar3s 5y ago[dead]
- pavel_lishin 5y agoYeah, I bet you'd get similar results with this methodology if you were instead focusing on "microdosing" with alcohol all day.
- KittenInABox 5y agoMore accurately: People who claim to be microdosing also claim to have lower levels of depression and anxiety, compared to people who claim they are not microdosing. None of this tells me whether or not people who have the time and money to microdose are simply in a situation more conducive to mental wellbeing.
- gunshai 5y agoWhy is it so hard to find fair criticism with in this comment section. Your comment is one of few that stays on topic to the study and skips the hyperbole. Thank you.
- snikeris 5y agoIf you're curious, they gathered income, employment, and education data from both groups (table 1).
- casi18 5y agofwiw lsd is very cheap compared to other drugs/medicines. i can get enough for a year for $30. (ten tabs as $3 a tab, 150/250u == ten strips per tab, 100 microdoses spread over the year, about twice a week).
- danschumann 5y agoPff, studies. Just tell me how fun they are.
- Dumblydorr 5y agoIt's important to have studies. How else can we justify our microdosing trends? Obviously we'd love an RCT, randomization to those who are willing, and placebo controls to help fool those who are motivated by the thought of taking a treatment.
- danschumann 5y agoYou have a sense of humor.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- testemailfordg2 5y agoWill they do a next study lasting 10 years on addictive effects of microdosing and putting you on a path of wanting highly potent stuff gradually?? No they will not, smells like a study funded by someone to prove a point on their sales pitch...No doubt the researchers could have been under a NDA for limited disclosure of observations / the funding provider reviewing information first before anything is published. Just like antibiotic resistance develops, addiction too follows the same path...
- gunshai 5y agoEveryone watch out for "big mushroom". But seriously gatewayism is total bullshit, also consider these substances are not addictive and if you've ever tried micro dosing you'd notice how benign the whole experience really is.
- can16358p 5y agoPsychedelics are not addictive. Stimulants and narcotics are (potentially).
- luckydata 5y agowe have 50 years of data that show psychedelics are not addictive - they stop working if done continuously and I for one have no clue why anyone would want to be in that state constantly.
- cameronh90 5y agoThis study is non-blinded, non-RCT based on individuals who self-selected through social media, self reporting symptoms through an app. While I'm hopeful that psychedelics may prove to be a treatment for some mental health issues, but this study doesn't tell us much.
- Loveaway 5y agoI'd be careful though. Psychedelic are a powerful eye opener that can and do help with depression, but taking them regularly, even just a microdose can be a very reckless thing. They have the potential to completely drive you insane if you over do it and are best enjoyed with long intervals in between.
- stronglikedan 5y agoYou're just parroting an old wive's tale designed to warn children away from drugs, despite being complete fiction.
- Forbo 5y agoHPPD and substance-induced psychosis are very real, however I don't know of any cases that were the result of microdosing.
- Loveaway 5y agoThere's a difference between taking drugs and taking them every day, becoming reliant on them, considering we're talking about hallucinogenics here.
- i_like_apis 5y agoYou think LSD induced psychosis is not a thing?
- akomtu 5y agoThe right question is "how often does LSD cause psychosis?"
- i_like_apis 5y agoEvery time you take it? It's basically a window into a malfunctioning brain. You bounce back when it wears off, but you can definitely change from tripping too much. Have you never met someone who has done too much acid?
- dathinab 5y agoDisclosure: Haven't read the paper yet, time constraints... One think pointed out when I stumbled about similar papers before was: The reduction of depression, anxiety, stress from micro-dosing are rediculus small compared to the effects of a more healthy live style and environment. Even just taking a walk in nature for 10min a day often had many times stronger positive effects.
- gunshai 5y agoAnecdotally I've seen these effects in someone I care about. They live a very healthy life and do all the other stuff well, but still no effect. They take one medium dose of psychedelics and are transformed for weeks. The effects do wear off. That effect by the way is the extremely esoteric "feeling openness". It is night and day for how they feel socially. I also have not read this study yet judging from a few comments it's not really randomized or blinded or anything.so the takeaways are very minimal.
- throwamon 5y ago> They take one medium dose of psychedelics and are transformed for weeks How much is this "medium dose"? In all likelihood it's not a microdose, which is what is under discussion. It's well known that higher doses can have lasting effects.
- gunshai 5y agoYou are correct that this isn't in the realm of micro. I was more speaking to the substance than the dose.
- Dumblydorr 5y agoI don't think feeling openness is extremely esoteric. One of the five basic personality traits is Open-Mindedness. It allows us to accept data with less bias, prediction, and judgment. It allows us to refresh our browsers, clear our cache, and garbage collect our minds. Open-Mindedness is a wonderful trait that everyone should cultivate.
- 5y ago
- arboghast 5y agoAnecdotal, but since I moved to Canada I enjoyed the legality of cannabis (thank you SQDC) and started to dose THC oil before bed and it solved most of my sleep issues (used to have insomnia). Every morning I wake up relaxed, refreshed and it stays the same through the day. Before that I used to do something similar with shrooms but in the morning. Always had that odd feeling I was borderline of starting to trip even with very low micro doses. But my experience in both cases is pretty similar to what people usually say about micro dosing.
- mmastrac 5y agoI've found that daily THC before bed impairs my ability to dream and taking a few nights off results in very vivid dreams. I'm in the same boat - it basically has cured or at least majorly blunted my insomnia.
- can16358p 5y agoIt might be related to having better/deeper sleep. When you sleep deeper and don't have interruptions, you probably wouldn't remember your dreams. When you withdraw, your sleep quality decreases, leading to more interruptions/shallower sleep, creating more possibility to remember your dreams. Just my two cents, of course I'm no pro and just speculating.
- luckydata 5y agoThere's tons of research showing THC impacts negatively REM sleep. A quick google search will return a lot of hits.
- arboghast 5y agoI doubt the quality of the studies. Also on my first hit “although this is not consistently replicated”. Google is one thing, reading and interpreting the papers is another. What matters to me is that I feel great, regardless.
- endisneigh 5y agoIs there even an objective set of criteria to measure depression and anxiety?
- mmastrac 5y agoAll depression and anxiety scales are self-reported questionnaires AFAIK. I'm sure there's ways to get a more objective relative anxiety level via sweat/temperature/etc but I'm not aware of anyone using that to measure changes over time.
- goodroot 5y agoThis is a poor study. But, I have been microdosing over the past few years. Happy to answer any questions.
- klondike_klive 5y agoWith what substance, and how often/how much?
- goodroot 5y agoPsilocybe cubensis - in particular, the "Golden Teacher" strain. It is native to the Americas, and cultivated in Vancouver. Received in full fruiting body form, ground in to powder for consistency of dosage. Initially, I started with .10g, up to .20g. Most of the dosing is between those values. The schedule is 5 on, 2 off, and it's taken in conjunction with B3 (Niacin) and Lion's Mane (a non-psychoactive mushroom). All together, the mix promotes neurogenesis. Combined with tools like meditation, exercise, and a supportive environment, it can do wonders to help re-construct toxic patterns built from long-term depressions and anxieties.
- more_corn 5y agoMight want to switch to a b complex. I heard a wives tale that b vitamins work in pairs and ramping up one can lead to a shortage in another. I don't even know how to research this for validity though.
- r0b05 5y agoHave you noticed any improvement in eyesight and general eye health? What is the propensity for addiction - can you stop whenever you want to? When last did you stop and for how long? Sorry for so many questions but this is not a trivial matter and you graciously offered to answer.
- sedeki 5y agoSeveral people here in the comments point out the lack of quality of the linked study. I am not a researcher so I wouldn't be able to "see" or figure out these things or know what to look for myself, unfortunately. But this is Nature, a well-respected journal, no? I'm surprised that they're essentially posting clickbait studies...
- krrrh 5y agoCo-author here, the discussion section of the paper details many of the limitations raised by commenters here in greater depth. People seem to be debunking claims that aren't made in the paper. I'm biased but I don't think Nature Scientific Reports can be accused of publishing clickbait in this case.
- Alacart 5y agoIs it more likely that Nature suddenly lost it's integrity or that people on HN might be jumping to conclusions about what the study actually says and how it was run? I don't see anything in the study that claims anything other than the truth? It's not like it's saying "Microdosing will make you happy". The title is literally "Adults who microdose psychedelics report health related motivations and lower levels of anxiety and depression compared to non-microdosers" It then tells you how the research was done, and what the statistics were. This isn't a random news website saying "Chocolate prevents cancers" or something.
- ensacco 5y agoMore anecdotal than anything else, my fiance suffered from crippling anxiety and moderate depression until mushrooms. Since then, she's come leaps and bounds, and she attributes quite a bit of this to her trip. As for myself, it helped me get over a mountain of grief after a rough childhood. I feel like there's no way I'd be where I am or forgive as much as I have unless I had taken them. No, they're not addictive. No, you can't take them repeatedly within a short time span. Yes, they're decriminalized/legalized in many areas.
- saiya-jin 5y agoThat's all nice and dandy, but with severe mental issues you mention, you both were much more lucky than you clearly realize. Shrooms can do true magic, but can easily drag you to the deepest sewer your mind can come up with, and drown you there. In extreme cases, it can literally break you, sometimes forever. There are people who end up in psychiatric ward for the rest of their lives after single acid trip, sometimes after way too high dose, sometimes not. There is no way to guarantee the outcome the first time, that's why medical expert supervision is important, especially for people with mental issues/baggage. That is all being said by person who did shrooms few times, alone, laying with closed eyes and the journey inward and back, with dissolution and later recomposition of every sense and part of my being as a bonus. By far the strongest experience in my life. It was absolutely amazing and beyond positive. But I don't have any mental or childhood issues and am very balanced person who knows himself pretty well (also thanx to these experiences).
- sxv 5y ago| But I don't have any mental or childhood issues found the replicant
- ensacco 5y agoWhen we considered the permanent and irreversible dependency and damage that years of anti-depressants could have done, the choice seemed to favor mushrooms. That said, we... - took smaller doses - went with a beginner friendly strain - dosed in a calm, trusting setting - had guides that ensured our safety Don't take these things lightly, and they'll treat you well.
- bobobob420 5y agoYeah cause your high lol. Psychedelics and other drugs can provide a different perspective of looking at things. For some people this might help them. For a lot of people I still believe that we should be doing studies with meditation and breathing exercises first. As much as I think drugs like marijuana have helped me become very emotionally intelligent, drugs are still dangerous even if they can’t physically hurt you. I think headlines like this which are used only to drive clicks to nature.com are 100 percent inaccurate and misleading. It’s hard to be depressed when your high (yes it’s microcode but ur still high and you know it lol). Doing research on this is fine but for nature.com to take it and write this headline is cancer
- amanaplanacanal 5y agoThere are people that have had terrible mental problems triggered by meditation too. Nothing is perfectly safe.
- bobobob420 5y agoCould I get a source if you have one please? I would like to read it. I can also Google if you don’t have a direct source your referring to on hand.
- comeonseriously 5y agoOf course they do, that's why they're microdosing psychedelics.
- tonymet 5y agofindings : people who like micro dosing report that it helps
- FredPret 5y agoTread carefully when altering the processes that constitute your ability to reason. I know somebody who nearly broke their mind by dosing with this and that chemical to self heal their issues.
- caseyohara 5y agoThis article is about microdosing, which is very small doses of psychedelics, well under the threshold dose for a proper psychedelic "trip". For psilocybin, a microdose would be on the order of 200mg, which is 1/10th the minimum threshold dose for a full-on trip (2 grams). Microdosing isn't going to alter your ability to reason.
- fnord77 5y agosame here. it took them years to get back to almost-baseline, and they still have chronic insomnia triggered by the trip.
- Dumblydorr 5y agoSam Harris states that, when it comes to self discovery, meditation is like a sail boat slowly heading towards mental clarity. In contrast, psychedelics are like strapping yourself to a rocket and hoping you see clarity and change your mind along the wild, dangerous ride.
- elwell 5y agoI know someone who took psilocybin mushrooms and it seemed to be the beginning / unlocking of schizophrenia for them.
- ZanyProgrammer 5y agoThat was what happened with Brian Wilson.
- amanaplanacanal 5y agoUnfortunately in these cases it is difficult to disentangle the effect of the drugs from the underlying problem they were trying to treat.
- desireco42 5y agoAnecdotally, it did wonders for me. I had really stressful workplace environment, it helped me immensely. I feel good effects today as well.
- vondur 5y agoI wonder if microdosing is effective for longer periods, or will the dosage need to be increased after after longer time periods?
- saltyfamiliar 5y agoTolerance to psychedelic substances ramps up very quickly in the short term, but reverts to baseline in a few days.
- officeplant 5y agoWould love to participate in a study just because I can't get regular access to mushrooms/cacti without growing it myself, and LSD is much harder to come across these days in my area.
- gunshai 5y agoIf I'm being honest I know the guy is full of shit. I'm making an honest attempt at being civil about it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Dumblydorr 5y agoAre you making an honest attempt to be civil if you're also stating the "guy is full of shit"? I asked for evidence too, but civility and calling someone full of shit in the same thread?
- gunshai 5y agoFull of shit is short hand for. I'm asking you for evidence for which I have confidence that you do not have. Meaning instead of saying "you are full of shit" I say "can you provide evidence for that" knowing I'll be delightedly surprised if they do, but not being disappointed when they don't and not making them immidiatly defensive with hostile language.
- dQw4w9WgXcQ 5y agoNah, what's full of shit is you up on your intellectual high-horse acting as if you're the god of all knowable and unknowable things. You yourself - o great one and master of all logic and intelligence - should know that a conclusion can still be true even if there is no well-documented evidence simply because enough research hasn't been done yet. But of course it's much easier to blow people off with a "cite your sources, bruh" and then act like you know everything with a zero-effort comment. Yea, pretty sure it's you that's full of shit.
- gunshai 5y agoSeen as how you aren't originally apart of the thread. This clearly struck a nerve. Are you okay? By the way I didn't act like I know everything, I acted confident in the absence of knowledge about a thing and challenged someone on their bold claim to which to me requires good evidence. What your comment misses completely is when I say I'd be delighted in a response that has some evidence I really do mean that. Cant you have to agree it gets tiring reading statements that assert bold claims of which have such a low probability of credibility.
- mjfl 5y agoInterviewer: "Why aren't you depressed?" Psychedelic microdoser: "Because I'm a balloon."
- alx__ 5y agoI know you're kidding. But with microdosing you shouldn't feel high. Similar with taking pharmaceutical pills, you'll feel something, but it won't impair your day
- zepto 5y agoHomeopathic psychedelics are even more effective.
- da39a3ee 5y agoSurely this analysis is completely flawed unless they were able to introduce placebos unwittingly to the participants who thought they were microdosing? Otherwise you've got a bunch of people who are the sorts of people who are going to try microdosing. Of course they're going to answer questionnaires in a way that scores them as less depressed. Firstly because they're less depressed people (can be bothered to work out how the hell to get hold of the stuff) and secondly because they're not stupid and know what sorts of answers will influence the score in what direction). Totally did not read the paper. Someone tell me I'm wrong please!
- hinkley 5y agoIs it possible that traditional diets were exposing us to small quantities of nootropics and we’ve just lost them through commodification? I wonder if this is a new phenomenon or just an undiagnosed one.
- cwkoss 5y agoNootropics is a very vaguely defined categorization. There are certainly vitamins and amino acids that improve brain function (especially in cases of deficits) that are underexpressed in modern food because of our optimization for size, shelf stability and appearance. However, the idea that there could be chemicals like psilocybin or modafinil or piracetam that used to be in our produce seems highly implausible.
- 99_00 5y agohttp://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- Alacart 5y agoI replied something similar elsewhere, but I think the real story here is about using tech to administer large scale studies and what that could mean for future research. A lot of people here are discounting the fact that this study would typically be very hard (or impossible) to administer at such a large scale, especially in such a short amount of time. In my mind, the important questions here are: Are the benefits of massive scale studies worth the trade-offs of self-reporting? What can we do to reduce or eliminate those trade-offs? Imagine the scientific value of having easily created, easily administered, massive studies be easily accessible to any research group. If the research data can be made even a little bit more reliable (direct mobile health-kit measurements for example), that's hugely valuable.
- krrrh 5y agoHi, I'm one of the co-authors on the study, and also a co-founder of Quantified Citizen which developed the platform used in this study. I just left a reply further up this thread detailing some of the logic behind our approach, and you're asking some great questions here. A simple way of thinking about this is that you're almost always making a trade off between quality and quantity when you collect data, with enough quantity you can hope to overcome some of the quality concerns. For instance our study also included a finger tapping test (analysis will be in an upcoming paper). This would have traditionally be administered in a lab by a technician by placing electrodes on a persons thumb and forefinger and asking them to tap them together. It is a validated practice for measuring Parkinson's symptoms or neuromuscular integrity. We can easily replicate something like this on a mobile app. Obviously doing it this way might result in noisier or less reliable data because there isn't a technician standing next to them helping them to get it right. Over time we have improved this by adding better instructions, addressing training effects and providing better instructions. We also collect data like screen resolution and phone model with each response so we can account for people who switch devices between tests or device-specific issues. And having datasets measured in the thousands means that a lot of these confounders come out in the wash, which isn't the case with study populations measured in the tens. We're picking up the pace on our technical development. Version 2 of the app will be out in the next week or two; we planned to get it out before this paper was published, but they surprised us with a very fast turn-around on the proofs. One of our goals is to make this type of research more agile, in a similar way that the software industry moved from waterfall project management to more rapid iterations. If the cost of designing and deploying a study is low enough, and data can get back fast enough, researchers can do more rapid pilot studies and iterations, and more quickly make adjustments to add new scales and assessments. On the subject of direct HealthKit measurements that's also a trend that we're excited about. The new version of our app will read from HealthKit and Google Fit, and we will be adding more integrations to other wearables and passively collected data with a privacy-by-design approach. We'll also be moving towards a design where users can consolidate different feeds of data and assessments that they are interested in collecting for intrinsic reasons, and then choose to make these available to different research projects.
- baby 5y agoYou need to use a control group with a bunch of people who take placebo… because that microdose cod rly well just act as a placebo.
- krrrh 5y agoHi everyone, I'm a co-author on this paper and also the co-founder of Quantified Citizen (we built the mobile research platform used in this study). What a nice experience to see this on the front page this morning. I'll address a few of the comments made here so far below, but feel free to reply with more questions (or reach out directly, email in bio) and I'll try to get back to them throughout the day. There are a lot of comments re-iterating concerns already covered in the limitations section of the paper. It's clear that an observational approach like this cannot establish causality and that self-selected recruitment can introduce bias, and the paper acknowledges this. RCTs will happen on this subject, but there aren't many significant ones published yet, and other types of evidence also provide value. The subject of microdosing is one where the community practice and experimentation is far ahead of where the science is, which is different from research into regulated medicines where drugs are either not on the market or prescribed by doctors. There are a lot of health-related topics like this that are understudied where practice within a community that is not served by mainstream medicine moves forward slowly through anecdotes and informal discovery processes. Think not just about stigmatized subjects like psychedelics, but also about chronic disease communities, biohackers, athletes, etc. Sometimes alternative therapies and bottom-up health practices like these end up being validated by the scientific community, and other times the relative lack of rigor leads to years of people taking harmful or fruitless approaches. Bringing a more scientific lens to what people are already doing and speeding up the feedback loop with the research community is a big part of what we're doing with our company. For microdosing specifically, there is a lot to discover by gathering evidence on motivations, demographics, and methods of real-world usage. The paper linked to above brings new insights into these topics, and is the first published research looking at the practice of stacking. One advantage of a large (n=8703) observational approach like this is that it helps pull signals from the noise to help inform further study. The patient-reported data on depression and anxiety comes form the standardized DASS-21 scale which is a widely used self-report tool in psychological research. In addition to this data, we also included various quantitative cognitive tasks in the app (data will be analyzed in upcoming papers, stay tuned). While this data isn't collected in a controlled environment our approach collects data from so many participants that we have power across various demographics and methods of use. We also encouraged non-microdosers to participate, and the relatively low burden of participating meant that many submitted data throughout the study period.
- dang 5y agoRecent and related (but different): Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29169160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29169160 - Nov 2021 (119 comments)
- xzywy 5y agoOutcomes of the study aside, it is great that despite the legality of these substances, we are seeing research beginning to bubble up into popular culture. I believe they can help a lot of people, and are so under researched!
- olliej 5y agoThis seems to be a version of “owning horses makes you healthier”
- akomtu 5y agoSerious question. If you live in a state where mushrooms aren't legal yet, can you declare yourself a researcher and register your kitchen as a lab?
- boppo1 5y agoEvery microdoser I've ever met (and I met a quite a few in my druggie days) was a pain in the ass with a loose grip on reality.
- coder4life 5y agoPro-Tip: Mega-dosing once every 4-6-12 months is even better
- Monika3344 5y agoI frequently struggle with anxiety. I sometimes take meds, however, I feel I've developed a tolerance. I'm also scared of the side effects described on https://www.canadapharmacy.com/ https://www.canadapharmacy.com/. So I'm in search of natural alternatives. I was also strongly recommended THC. I think I should try it.
- Monika3344 5y agoI frequently struggle with anxiety. I sometimes take meds, however, I feel I've developed a tolerance. I'm also scared of the side effects. So I'm in search of natural alternatives. I was also strongly recommended THC. I think I should try it.