4 ms·

Men are marginalized in many ways beyond what this one article says - education, criminal justice, mental health to name but a few broad areas. Anyone who says

Men are marginalized in many ways beyond what this one article says - education, criminal justice, mental health to name but a few broad areas. Anyone who says otherwise is part of the problem and should have no voice in this conversation. Happy International Men's Day.

Chris2048 5y ago
> Anyone who says otherwise is part of the problem and should have no voice in this conversation. This is the same intolerant gatekeeping that I loathe in the feminist camp. Everyone has a voice, anyone can participate, no one-person gets to define "the" problem, let alone label/dehumanize people as being problems.
- ZGDUwpqEWpUZ 5y ago
  > no one-person gets to define "the" problem Well of course, this is not a dictatorship and I'm not a dictator. I'm stating my opinion on a forum. In the same way flat-Earthers have no place teaching astronomy, someone who believes the pay gap is women getting paid less for the same work has no place teaching sociology. That is intolerant, but so it should be. Gatekeeping is inevitable and necessary, the problem is that the wrong people currently hold the keys. You can find yourself locked out for stating that the wage gap is one side of a compromise, or that men get harsher criminal punishments (for the same crimes), or that female-perpetrated sexual abuse has been grossly undercounted (my personal grievance). If we want to confront these issues, then the existing gatekeepers need to be replaced, not tolerated.
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    But fields of science/academia have factual authority that a random persons' opinion does not. The "conversation", which I assume to be the societal conversation i.e. marketplace of ideas is explicitly a free, and public one.
- mpweiher 5y ago
  It's perfectly OK to "gatekeep" against falsehoods and those who spread those falsehoods. In fact, a functioning society depends on weeding out falsehoods, otherwise everything goes down the toilet.
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    Does that mean functioning societies have no religion?
    - mpweiher 5y ago
      No, it means that functioning societies keep religion out of running the show.
      - Chris2048 5y ago
        Participating in a conversation is not running the show.

Chris2048 5y ago

> Anyone who says otherwise is part of the problem and should have no voice in this conversation. This is the same intolerant gatekeeping that I loathe in the feminist camp. Everyone has a voice, anyone can participate, no one-person gets to define "the" problem, let alone label/dehumanize people as being problems.

ZGDUwpqEWpUZ 5y ago
> no one-person gets to define "the" problem Well of course, this is not a dictatorship and I'm not a dictator. I'm stating my opinion on a forum. In the same way flat-Earthers have no place teaching astronomy, someone who believes the pay gap is women getting paid less for the same work has no place teaching sociology. That is intolerant, but so it should be. Gatekeeping is inevitable and necessary, the problem is that the wrong people currently hold the keys. You can find yourself locked out for stating that the wage gap is one side of a compromise, or that men get harsher criminal punishments (for the same crimes), or that female-perpetrated sexual abuse has been grossly undercounted (my personal grievance). If we want to confront these issues, then the existing gatekeepers need to be replaced, not tolerated.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  But fields of science/academia have factual authority that a random persons' opinion does not. The "conversation", which I assume to be the societal conversation i.e. marketplace of ideas is explicitly a free, and public one.
mpweiher 5y ago
It's perfectly OK to "gatekeep" against falsehoods and those who spread those falsehoods. In fact, a functioning society depends on weeding out falsehoods, otherwise everything goes down the toilet.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  Does that mean functioning societies have no religion?
  - mpweiher 5y ago
    No, it means that functioning societies keep religion out of running the show.
    - Chris2048 5y ago
      Participating in a conversation is not running the show.