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I think Apple needs be forced to open their AirTag platform to non-Apple users, at least for the tracking notifications. I don't have an Apple phone, nor I plan

I think Apple needs be forced to open their AirTag platform to non-Apple users, at least for the tracking notifications. I don't have an Apple phone, nor I plan to get one, and this is plainly creepy.

havkd 5y ago
Stop trying to get the government involved in everything. It’s not Apple’s fault someone is stalking you using their technology.
- cj 5y ago
  I had a gut negative reaction to this comment (the government comment is irrelevant). But to play devil's advocate, can't someone buy any cheap old iPhone (or any smartphone), activate it with a cheap prepaid plan, and use the phone itself as a tracking device instead of an airtag? I guess the only thing special about the airtag is it's (slightly) cheaper than a cheap smartphone, longer battery life, and explicitly marketed for the purpose of tracking things. Even if a cheap prepaid smartphone can accomplish the same thing while going completed undetected.
  - scoopdewoop 5y ago
    How is it irrelevant? "Apple needs be forced" By whom if not the government?
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Because the law should not be targeting a specific company. If the government wants to make tracking illegal, then make tracking illegal.
  - rwc 5y ago
    The practical difference being battery life of an iPhone versus an AirTag.
    - imwillofficial 5y ago
      Ok, what about many of the hundreds of commercially available trackers from china?
  - sct202 5y ago
    The battery life makes it a whole different issue. AirTags have a battery life of 1 year versus a burner phone with a battery life of 2 days.
    - cj 5y ago
      As of the latest iPhone release, "Find my iphone" still works even when you power the iphone off (there's a warning that says this when you attempt to shut down your iphone). I wonder how long an iPhone will hold its charge while powered off.
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    > But to play devil's advocate, can't someone buy any cheap old iPhone (or any smartphone), activate it with a cheap prepaid plan, and use the phone itself as a tracking device instead of an airtag? When I was younger I had a friend who worked in a cellular phone store (back when most people went to a physical store to buy cell phones). He very frequently got customers asking for another phone to do exactly this. It was a common problem for their commission structure because the cheap phones used for tracking people (usually spouses suspected of cheating) were often returned within 30 days and their data plan cancelled, which was a net negative for their sales stats and commission structure.
  - friendzis 5y ago
    How long does the battery of the tag last vs the battery of a full phone?
webmobdev 5y ago
Some common standard will need to be developed for compatibility, but I really don't like the use of "mesh" networking for this as it leaves your device vulnerable and susceptible to hacking. The Android app idea is not ideal too: - An Android app will make the "AirTag network" even more pervasive, with even Android phones doing the tracking for Apple. - What happens when there are such "tags" all around you? How many false alerts will it take before users start ignoring it?
riskable 5y ago
It's wishful thinking to believe that we'll be able to prevent anyone from tracking our car's movements. It's just too easy; even without devices like AirTags. GPS trackers cost like $50 and are smaller than a cell phone (thicker though because they usually have a big battery/lots of batteries). They're weather/waterproof for the most part and have strong magnets to attach to the underside of a car where no normal person would ever look. They usually come with hard-wire options as well so you can tie into a car's 12V system (depending on the car this is either trivial/fast with a vampire tap or a time consuming activity). These devices can't be easily detected from a cell phone; it's easier to physically look for them than to try to capture their wireless emissions (unless you have special equipment). Some of them just record their locations over time and don't even emit anything at all but there's probably some that can communicate these logs via Bluetooth but I'm not sure how common that is. Using an AirTag to track someone's car is basically ridiculously lazy and risky... Too easy for the target to notice IMHO. For reference, most of the folks on HN could probably make their own GPS tracker with their microcontroller of choice and a ~$5 GPS breakout. Could even get super fancy to have it transmit coordinates via LoRa and whatnot. You could even 3D print an enclosure for it that precisely matches the contours of the underside of a (specific) car so that it wouldn't be found unless you were super duper familiar with what the underside of your car looked like.
- nieve 5y ago
  AirTags are cheap, easy to acquire (the user may already own some), and come with a shiny app already integrated into a stalker or abuser's iPhone. They may not be as good as the real thing, but that won't stop them increasing the amount of tracking going on.
bitcuration 5y ago
Apple is going to make it available to android et. al. platform, just saw the news.

havkd 5y ago

Stop trying to get the government involved in everything. It’s not Apple’s fault someone is stalking you using their technology.

cj 5y ago
I had a gut negative reaction to this comment (the government comment is irrelevant). But to play devil's advocate, can't someone buy any cheap old iPhone (or any smartphone), activate it with a cheap prepaid plan, and use the phone itself as a tracking device instead of an airtag? I guess the only thing special about the airtag is it's (slightly) cheaper than a cheap smartphone, longer battery life, and explicitly marketed for the purpose of tracking things. Even if a cheap prepaid smartphone can accomplish the same thing while going completed undetected.
- scoopdewoop 5y ago
  How is it irrelevant? "Apple needs be forced" By whom if not the government?
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Because the law should not be targeting a specific company. If the government wants to make tracking illegal, then make tracking illegal.
- rwc 5y ago
  The practical difference being battery life of an iPhone versus an AirTag.
  - imwillofficial 5y ago
    Ok, what about many of the hundreds of commercially available trackers from china?
- sct202 5y ago
  The battery life makes it a whole different issue. AirTags have a battery life of 1 year versus a burner phone with a battery life of 2 days.
  - cj 5y ago
    As of the latest iPhone release, "Find my iphone" still works even when you power the iphone off (there's a warning that says this when you attempt to shut down your iphone). I wonder how long an iPhone will hold its charge while powered off.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > But to play devil's advocate, can't someone buy any cheap old iPhone (or any smartphone), activate it with a cheap prepaid plan, and use the phone itself as a tracking device instead of an airtag? When I was younger I had a friend who worked in a cellular phone store (back when most people went to a physical store to buy cell phones). He very frequently got customers asking for another phone to do exactly this. It was a common problem for their commission structure because the cheap phones used for tracking people (usually spouses suspected of cheating) were often returned within 30 days and their data plan cancelled, which was a net negative for their sales stats and commission structure.
- friendzis 5y ago
  How long does the battery of the tag last vs the battery of a full phone?

webmobdev 5y ago

Some common standard will need to be developed for compatibility, but I really don't like the use of "mesh" networking for this as it leaves your device vulnerable and susceptible to hacking. The Android app idea is not ideal too: - An Android app will make the "AirTag network" even more pervasive, with even Android phones doing the tracking for Apple. - What happens when there are such "tags" all around you? How many false alerts will it take before users start ignoring it?

riskable 5y ago

It's wishful thinking to believe that we'll be able to prevent anyone from tracking our car's movements. It's just too easy; even without devices like AirTags. GPS trackers cost like $50 and are smaller than a cell phone (thicker though because they usually have a big battery/lots of batteries). They're weather/waterproof for the most part and have strong magnets to attach to the underside of a car where no normal person would ever look. They usually come with hard-wire options as well so you can tie into a car's 12V system (depending on the car this is either trivial/fast with a vampire tap or a time consuming activity). These devices can't be easily detected from a cell phone; it's easier to physically look for them than to try to capture their wireless emissions (unless you have special equipment). Some of them just record their locations over time and don't even emit anything at all but there's probably some that can communicate these logs via Bluetooth but I'm not sure how common that is. Using an AirTag to track someone's car is basically ridiculously lazy and risky... Too easy for the target to notice IMHO. For reference, most of the folks on HN could probably make their own GPS tracker with their microcontroller of choice and a ~$5 GPS breakout. Could even get super fancy to have it transmit coordinates via LoRa and whatnot. You could even 3D print an enclosure for it that precisely matches the contours of the underside of a (specific) car so that it wouldn't be found unless you were super duper familiar with what the underside of your car looked like.

nieve 5y ago
AirTags are cheap, easy to acquire (the user may already own some), and come with a shiny app already integrated into a stalker or abuser's iPhone. They may not be as good as the real thing, but that won't stop them increasing the amount of tracking going on.

bitcuration 5y ago

Apple is going to make it available to android et. al. platform, just saw the news.