4 ms·

You don't care about the censorship and oppression of 1/5 of the world population by the CCCP? Doesn't that make _you_ the anti-chinese one here?

eunos 5y ago
Oppressed 1/5 of world population is on track to become high income country and highest GDP?
- jeswin 5y ago
  If I had to pick between free speech and higher income, I'll pick free speech.
  - eunos 5y ago
    Better having full tummy and empty mind rather than the other way around.
    - kymaz 5y ago
      Unless the religion one follows condemns you to an afterlife of suffering for the actions you took to have a full tummy.
      - mildmotive 5y ago
        If they’re a commie (atheist) they don’t believe in an afterlife anyway, so there isn’t really any accountability in the mind of such a person if they can get away with whatever they do in this life.
        anders_p 5y ago
        > If they’re a commie (atheist) they don’t believe in an afterlife anyway, so there isn’t really any accountability in the mind of such a person if they can get away with whatever they do in this life. Unlike the religious people who believe, that they can sin as much as they want to, just as long as they repent, and then still go to heaven?
        mechanical_bear 5y ago
        Tell me you haven’t read the Bible without telling me…
        anders_p 5y ago
        Not relevant. What Christians believe, doesn't necessarily have anything to with what the Bible says. Even when it does, then it's often cherry picked.
        danuker 5y ago
        > commie (atheist) I am a capitalist-as-it-gets atheist. How dare you equate me to a communist! Belief in gods has nothing to do with belief in politicians' ability to manage the economy.
        mildmotive 5y ago
        I didn’t equate atheists to commies. Let me rephrase that: All commies are atheists but all atheists are not commies. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
    - looper_dude 5y ago
      That's the dumbest thing I've read all day. I'd rather starve than suffer fat idiots thanks.
  - mildmotive 5y ago
    Don’t take the ”highest GDP” statement at face value. It’s not only a lie (the US still has the highest GDP), GDP also doesn’t account for economic imbalances. Much of the Chinese population are living in poverty. Chinese shills will claim that poverty has been eliminated, but that’s only true if you lower the poverty line. You could set the poverty line to 10 USD/year if you wanted to and by doing so “solve poverty”. There is much room for misinformation and lies when it comes to these issues. One has to stay vigilant.
    - eunos 5y ago
      That's why I said on track.
    - herbst 5y ago
      To be fair the GDP per capita in-balance in the US is also horrible from a western standpoint.
      - mildmotive 5y ago
        This doesn’t take away from the fact that he was outright lying when he said China that has the highest GDP.
  - DocTomoe 5y ago
    Given that "free speech" is nonexistent even in the West (or in the case of the US: quickly dying because of new Puritanism), many would answer that question differently. Food first, then morality. -- Berthold Brecht
    - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
      That translation is ambiguous. He said Fressen. Which means eating like an animal, or to gorge/guzzle. So not simply having enough food.
- 88840-8855 5y ago
  Exactly this. This idealistic discussion is leading nowhere, still, my 2 cents. I experienced this opinion when speaking to people who never lived there or even spoke with people from there. In fact people there are fully aware of the censorship and either ignore it, find easy ways around it or even mock it and make fun of it: from creating the globally famous "Winnie the Pooh" synonym to memes that are shared.
- anders_p 5y ago
  > Oppressed 1/5 of world population is on track to become high income country and highest GDP? Those things have _nothing_ to do with each other. The US southern states got very rich on cotton, tobacco, etc., and had a high GDP, during slavery. Were the slaves not oppressed? Again, GDP has nothing to do with being oppressed or not.
tehjoker 5y ago
You remember that our government is spying on the entire world with active military bases located all around the world... right?
- anders_p 5y ago
  > You remember that our government is spying on the entire world with active military bases located all around the world... right? No, MY country's government isn't doing anything like that. I guess you're talking about the actions of the US government, which I have not condoned. So this is "whataboutism". I find it funny, that nobody here's able to defend the CCP, without resorting to that.
- mildmotive 5y ago
  China just hasn’t yet gotten the chance to commit as many atrocities abroad yet, which is something that it’s currently threatening to do. South China Sea, Taiwan, the occupation of Hong Kong, Silk road initiative, Predatory lending to African despots, Chinese naval base in Africa, China eating away at the Indian border, and the list goes on.
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    The only one of these that is credible in my opinion is the Indian border issue which I have little understanding of. My understanding of the B&R initiative is that while there are terms that are not always good for the debtor, they are far superior to IMF/World Bank loans that destroy the target nation's economic foundation by requiring privatization and reduction of labor protections. I don't know exactly what you mean by despots. Taiwan is debatable, but I see it as a regional dispute over an artifact of the civil war. Honk Kong I am suspicious of as the protests seem to be supported by the CIA and are pro-capitalist. The B&R initiative, building economic infrastructure to support the region, is a good thing, I don't see how that's an issue.
Barrin92 5y ago
Nope because I'm not arrogant enough to think that the Chinese people are oppressed just because they don't live by your values. I have actually lived in China, and regardless of wherever anyone stood on politics, they were unified by one thing, they had no interest in being governed by foreign rule ever again.
- anders_p 5y ago
  > they were unified by one thing, they had no interest in being governed by foreign rule ever again. This has absolutely _nothing_ to do with what I wrote. I have no idea why you'd even make this comment?

eunos 5y ago

Oppressed 1/5 of world population is on track to become high income country and highest GDP?

jeswin 5y ago
If I had to pick between free speech and higher income, I'll pick free speech.
- eunos 5y ago
  Better having full tummy and empty mind rather than the other way around.
  - kymaz 5y ago
    Unless the religion one follows condemns you to an afterlife of suffering for the actions you took to have a full tummy.
    - mildmotive 5y ago
      If they’re a commie (atheist) they don’t believe in an afterlife anyway, so there isn’t really any accountability in the mind of such a person if they can get away with whatever they do in this life.
      - anders_p 5y ago
        > If they’re a commie (atheist) they don’t believe in an afterlife anyway, so there isn’t really any accountability in the mind of such a person if they can get away with whatever they do in this life. Unlike the religious people who believe, that they can sin as much as they want to, just as long as they repent, and then still go to heaven?
        mechanical_bear 5y ago
        Tell me you haven’t read the Bible without telling me…
        anders_p 5y ago
        Not relevant. What Christians believe, doesn't necessarily have anything to with what the Bible says. Even when it does, then it's often cherry picked.
      - danuker 5y ago
        > commie (atheist) I am a capitalist-as-it-gets atheist. How dare you equate me to a communist! Belief in gods has nothing to do with belief in politicians' ability to manage the economy.
        mildmotive 5y ago
        I didn’t equate atheists to commies. Let me rephrase that: All commies are atheists but all atheists are not commies. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
  - looper_dude 5y ago
    That's the dumbest thing I've read all day. I'd rather starve than suffer fat idiots thanks.
- mildmotive 5y ago
  Don’t take the ”highest GDP” statement at face value. It’s not only a lie (the US still has the highest GDP), GDP also doesn’t account for economic imbalances. Much of the Chinese population are living in poverty. Chinese shills will claim that poverty has been eliminated, but that’s only true if you lower the poverty line. You could set the poverty line to 10 USD/year if you wanted to and by doing so “solve poverty”. There is much room for misinformation and lies when it comes to these issues. One has to stay vigilant.
  - eunos 5y ago
    That's why I said on track.
  - herbst 5y ago
    To be fair the GDP per capita in-balance in the US is also horrible from a western standpoint.
    - mildmotive 5y ago
      This doesn’t take away from the fact that he was outright lying when he said China that has the highest GDP.
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  Given that "free speech" is nonexistent even in the West (or in the case of the US: quickly dying because of new Puritanism), many would answer that question differently. Food first, then morality. -- Berthold Brecht
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    That translation is ambiguous. He said Fressen. Which means eating like an animal, or to gorge/guzzle. So not simply having enough food.
88840-8855 5y ago
Exactly this. This idealistic discussion is leading nowhere, still, my 2 cents. I experienced this opinion when speaking to people who never lived there or even spoke with people from there. In fact people there are fully aware of the censorship and either ignore it, find easy ways around it or even mock it and make fun of it: from creating the globally famous "Winnie the Pooh" synonym to memes that are shared.
anders_p 5y ago
> Oppressed 1/5 of world population is on track to become high income country and highest GDP? Those things have _nothing_ to do with each other. The US southern states got very rich on cotton, tobacco, etc., and had a high GDP, during slavery. Were the slaves not oppressed? Again, GDP has nothing to do with being oppressed or not.

tehjoker 5y ago

You remember that our government is spying on the entire world with active military bases located all around the world... right?

anders_p 5y ago
> You remember that our government is spying on the entire world with active military bases located all around the world... right? No, MY country's government isn't doing anything like that. I guess you're talking about the actions of the US government, which I have not condoned. So this is "whataboutism". I find it funny, that nobody here's able to defend the CCP, without resorting to that.
mildmotive 5y ago
China just hasn’t yet gotten the chance to commit as many atrocities abroad yet, which is something that it’s currently threatening to do. South China Sea, Taiwan, the occupation of Hong Kong, Silk road initiative, Predatory lending to African despots, Chinese naval base in Africa, China eating away at the Indian border, and the list goes on.
- tehjoker 5y ago
  The only one of these that is credible in my opinion is the Indian border issue which I have little understanding of. My understanding of the B&R initiative is that while there are terms that are not always good for the debtor, they are far superior to IMF/World Bank loans that destroy the target nation's economic foundation by requiring privatization and reduction of labor protections. I don't know exactly what you mean by despots. Taiwan is debatable, but I see it as a regional dispute over an artifact of the civil war. Honk Kong I am suspicious of as the protests seem to be supported by the CIA and are pro-capitalist. The B&R initiative, building economic infrastructure to support the region, is a good thing, I don't see how that's an issue.

Barrin92 5y ago

Nope because I'm not arrogant enough to think that the Chinese people are oppressed just because they don't live by your values. I have actually lived in China, and regardless of wherever anyone stood on politics, they were unified by one thing, they had no interest in being governed by foreign rule ever again.

anders_p 5y ago
> they were unified by one thing, they had no interest in being governed by foreign rule ever again. This has absolutely _nothing_ to do with what I wrote. I have no idea why you'd even make this comment?