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These companies were also granted liability waivers for these vaccines (and are making record profits from them). They should not get to preserve any "trade sec

These companies were also granted liability waivers for these vaccines (and are making record profits from them). They should not get to preserve any "trade secrets."

giantg2 5y ago
Not to mention they agreed to let other companies manufacture/use their formula (or so they say).
barry-cotter 5y ago
> (and are making record profits from them) Man, if that were true it would be great. It would show that we could reward providing society with enormous benefts with enormous awards. If only that were true.
- reducesuffering 5y ago
  Moderna and BioNTech both made around $7 billion profit each, not revenue, just last year. Because of this, their share price is also up 11x since IPO 3 years ago, and 16x since IPO 2 years ago, respectively. https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MRNA/financials?p=MRNA https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MRNA/financials?p=MRNA https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BNTX/financials?p=BNTX https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BNTX/financials?p=BNTX
  - Kranar 5y ago
    Damn, imagine making a world changing product used by close to half of the world's population to overcome a global crisis... and making less profit than a company that sells highly marked up leather bags. Kind of a depressing thought the extent to which we prioritize things.
    - reducesuffering 5y ago
      Do not get me started on what disturbing problems exist for LVMH to be a $360 billion company in this world...
rp1 5y ago
Sure, but the government also desperately needed a vaccine. It wasn’t exactly a buyers marker…
DannyBee 5y ago
That's a nice theory, but it's required by law that the FDA not do that :) https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=601.51 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFR... Part e and friends.
- TomSwirly 5y ago
  The law protects corporations against people every time. These laws need tearing down in a big way. > That's a nice theory, "...but in practice you're naïve to think that citizens have any rights at all."
  - erhk 5y ago
    Call your local representative. Tell your neighbors about it. This is the real means to pressure legoslation.
    - nescioquid 5y ago
      Tell us about that time you and your neighbors called your representative and somehow "pressured" him to break against party, donors, and every other force acting in the opposite direction. Did you succeed because you and your neighbors made persuasive arguments, or were you important donors, or did you merely receive an equivocal response? Or was the matter a triviality with no important competing interests? The real means of pressuring legislators (that is to say, how it is routinely done) is via regulatory capture. To have any influence you need to somehow bring more pressure to bear on your legislator than the current forces which determine your legislator's incentives. Let the legislator weigh in one hand angry constituent phone calls to his staff, and in the other, important donors, access to funding organizations, post-public sector job opportunities, etc. etc. Which hand is more weighed down? When someone points out the depth of corruption and dysfunction and this elicits the response "just call your legislator", it strikes me as either patronizing or merely naive.
    - Marc6919 5y ago
      There are literally tens of billions of dollars at work trying to block this release. The harder they try, the more that tells you something is up. Time and resources are not the reason they won't release the info. Unfortunately, the legislators are compromised because Pfizer is making huge contributions to each party's Political Action Committee's. There is an incestuous relationship between industy and politics. Trial Lawyers, Unions and Pharma are the biggest influence buyers.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> These companies were also granted liability waivers for these vaccines (and are making record profits from them). They should not get to preserve any "trade secrets." You are welcome to convince Congress to retroactively change the rules based on which the firms invested in the research (and then to have the government try to convince the Courts that that change is not a taking under the 5th Amendment), but FDA has to comply with the law as it exists, not your fantasy of what the law should be.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  Yet Pfizer et al got their fantasy and nobody blinks an eye? Pfizer, Moderna, and Biontech were recently reported as making $1000 per second from the vaccines. Fuck their "trade secrets." Protect the privacy of individuals, but these companies were not given special exemptions so they could make bank, and should not expect business as usual. These vaccines are the product of tax dollars and abeyance of the laws, every cent of profit in excess of time and material should be going back to the US government. Pandemics shouldn't be winning lottery tickets - that's an obscene incentive for an industry already known for its blackhearted exploitation of human misery. "But muh rules" is already out the window. These companies already have the means to create pandemics, let's not set the precedent that worldwide plagues are great for the bottom line.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Pandemics shouldn't be winning lottery tickets If you want solutions, and you have capitalism, there isn't much choice. I’m perfectly fine with dismantling capitalism, but that's not really the role of the court adjudicating an FOIA case. > "But muh rules" is already out the window. No, the rule of law and Constitutional guarantees against arbitrary deprivation of liberty and property are not out the window. I get that some people in this thread desperately want them to be, though.

These companies were also granted liability waivers for these vaccines (and are making record profits from them). They should not get to preserve any "trade secrets."

giantg2 5y ago

Not to mention they agreed to let other companies manufacture/use their formula (or so they say).

barry-cotter 5y ago

> (and are making record profits from them) Man, if that were true it would be great. It would show that we could reward providing society with enormous benefts with enormous awards. If only that were true.

reducesuffering 5y ago
Moderna and BioNTech both made around $7 billion profit each, not revenue, just last year. Because of this, their share price is also up 11x since IPO 3 years ago, and 16x since IPO 2 years ago, respectively. https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MRNA/financials?p=MRNA https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MRNA/financials?p=MRNA https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BNTX/financials?p=BNTX https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BNTX/financials?p=BNTX
- Kranar 5y ago
  Damn, imagine making a world changing product used by close to half of the world's population to overcome a global crisis... and making less profit than a company that sells highly marked up leather bags. Kind of a depressing thought the extent to which we prioritize things.
  - reducesuffering 5y ago
    Do not get me started on what disturbing problems exist for LVMH to be a $360 billion company in this world...

rp1 5y ago

Sure, but the government also desperately needed a vaccine. It wasn’t exactly a buyers marker…

DannyBee 5y ago

That's a nice theory, but it's required by law that the FDA not do that :) https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=601.51 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFR... Part e and friends.

TomSwirly 5y ago
The law protects corporations against people every time. These laws need tearing down in a big way. > That's a nice theory, "...but in practice you're naïve to think that citizens have any rights at all."
- erhk 5y ago
  Call your local representative. Tell your neighbors about it. This is the real means to pressure legoslation.
  - nescioquid 5y ago
    Tell us about that time you and your neighbors called your representative and somehow "pressured" him to break against party, donors, and every other force acting in the opposite direction. Did you succeed because you and your neighbors made persuasive arguments, or were you important donors, or did you merely receive an equivocal response? Or was the matter a triviality with no important competing interests? The real means of pressuring legislators (that is to say, how it is routinely done) is via regulatory capture. To have any influence you need to somehow bring more pressure to bear on your legislator than the current forces which determine your legislator's incentives. Let the legislator weigh in one hand angry constituent phone calls to his staff, and in the other, important donors, access to funding organizations, post-public sector job opportunities, etc. etc. Which hand is more weighed down? When someone points out the depth of corruption and dysfunction and this elicits the response "just call your legislator", it strikes me as either patronizing or merely naive.
  - Marc6919 5y ago
    There are literally tens of billions of dollars at work trying to block this release. The harder they try, the more that tells you something is up. Time and resources are not the reason they won't release the info. Unfortunately, the legislators are compromised because Pfizer is making huge contributions to each party's Political Action Committee's. There is an incestuous relationship between industy and politics. Trial Lawyers, Unions and Pharma are the biggest influence buyers.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> These companies were also granted liability waivers for these vaccines (and are making record profits from them). They should not get to preserve any "trade secrets." You are welcome to convince Congress to retroactively change the rules based on which the firms invested in the research (and then to have the government try to convince the Courts that that change is not a taking under the 5th Amendment), but FDA has to comply with the law as it exists, not your fantasy of what the law should be.

robbedpeter 5y ago
Yet Pfizer et al got their fantasy and nobody blinks an eye? Pfizer, Moderna, and Biontech were recently reported as making $1000 per second from the vaccines. Fuck their "trade secrets." Protect the privacy of individuals, but these companies were not given special exemptions so they could make bank, and should not expect business as usual. These vaccines are the product of tax dollars and abeyance of the laws, every cent of profit in excess of time and material should be going back to the US government. Pandemics shouldn't be winning lottery tickets - that's an obscene incentive for an industry already known for its blackhearted exploitation of human misery. "But muh rules" is already out the window. These companies already have the means to create pandemics, let's not set the precedent that worldwide plagues are great for the bottom line.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Pandemics shouldn't be winning lottery tickets If you want solutions, and you have capitalism, there isn't much choice. I’m perfectly fine with dismantling capitalism, but that's not really the role of the court adjudicating an FOIA case. > "But muh rules" is already out the window. No, the rule of law and Constitutional guarantees against arbitrary deprivation of liberty and property are not out the window. I get that some people in this thread desperately want them to be, though.