6 ms·

I really want to know what the end game for this and CRT is

harpiaharpyja 5y ago
Loss of critical thinking skills most likely. Especially in younger people as the emphasis in education on teaching critical thinking is undermined.
- smegger001 5y ago
  remember the good old days when it was just the far right trying to stop young people from learning critical thinking. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas...) evidentially no one wants people to think rationally anymore.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
bronzeage 5y ago
Destruction and confusion of western values, leading to a population more open to authoritarian and illiberal policies. The goal is to confuse uneducated people (or rather, educate new people) about what being liberal means. Before the propaganda, it used to come from liberty, freedom. Today being liberal means giving up personal freedoms like choosing whether to take medical treatments, and freedom to do whatever you want without government intervention. Equality as a value used to mean to treat people equally without discrimination, but the value was distorted to mean you should intentionally discriminate in favor of the supposedly victimized and weak races and women. Propaganda has successfully and silently distorted and redefined the entire ideological foundations of liberal democracy. There's people on the left that call themselves democratic and liberal very loudly but their versions of democracy and liberty are completely different words, only sharing the same letters. With the current trajectory, I'll be surprised if anyone will even know their real meaning in 40 years. Words are just letters, the semantics come from usage. They don't come from the dictionary. Just like AI is trained on input, so are humans. They can be trained to have different semantic meaning in their head for whatever word you want, as long as their inputs are flooded with that usage of the word. You can continuously transform a liberal democracy into an authoritarian state, while in every point in the process people will still call it liberal democracy. It's all about the internal semantics in people's heads.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
The claimed end game, or the actual end game? The claimed end game is that it removes oppression from those who have been oppressed, and they are free to flourish. The actual end game? I suspect that it's going to be very complicated. This may keep some people from dropping out, which is a positive. But it's going to leave a bunch of people with an "education" that is close to worthless, of little value in the real world. In the real world, the right answer matters. So a bunch of these people are going to grow up and find out that the world values their abilities very little. The options left are either poverty or a life of welfare support, depending on how much they can appeal to the conscience of the larger society. If you have children, and you care about their future, you need to be paying attention to what's going on with their education. The days of being able to just hand them over to the public school system and trust them to do an adequate job are over, if they ever existed.
- orangepurple 5y ago
  > So a bunch of these people are going to grow up and find out that the world values their abilities very little. The options left are either poverty or a life of welfare support, depending on how much they can appeal to the conscience of the larger society. This will be the next crisis for sure. It is only logical. I wonder how that will play out?
oceanghost 5y ago
Racism. It's pretty simple. The real thing that CRT accomplishes is the acceptance of its predicate-- Namely, that we can be divided into simple groups almost always by sight, and then are somehow guilty by association for what others who look like us have done, in the past, regardless of our actual connection to those events. That's just a restatement of racism and original sin. I say it's original sin because--there's nothing you can do to change things or make yourself better. You are permanently damned by what the worst person ever with your skin tone did. I say racism because it redefines racism in such a way that racism towards men and whites is mostly OK. The goal here really isn't to move the pendulum to the center, its to move it the opposite direction where white men in particular are the lowest status. I do believe in structural racism, but I wonder sometimes how much of the racism on the right could have been avoided if we hadn't told them they were all irredeemable racists and that we hated them. The vitriol kind of makes everyone have to pick a side.
- krapp 5y ago
  > but I wonder sometimes how much of the racism on the right could have been avoided if we hadn't told them they were all irredeemable racists and that we hated them. The vitriol kind of makes everyone have to pick a side. It doesn't though. You can be a white person, even a white Conservative, be opposed to CRT and not "pick a side." If their response to being called racist is to lean even harder into the racism, that just proves that their critics had a point.
  - oceanghost 5y ago
    That's exactly the bullshit I'm talking about. If there's only two places to go, and one sides tells you they hate you, you will go the other place. Works on both sides.
    - krapp 5y ago
      >If there's only two places to go, and one sides tells you they hate you, you will go the other place. There are never "only two places to go," nor are there only two "sides." You need to be racist to begin with to view social politics in such reductionist terms, such that all paths somehow lead to a justification of hating people rather than simply disagreeing with their ideas.

Loss of critical thinking skills most likely. Especially in younger people as the emphasis in education on teaching critical thinking is undermined.

smegger001 5y ago
remember the good old days when it was just the far right trying to stop young people from learning critical thinking. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas...) evidentially no one wants people to think rationally anymore.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

bronzeage 5y ago

Destruction and confusion of western values, leading to a population more open to authoritarian and illiberal policies. The goal is to confuse uneducated people (or rather, educate new people) about what being liberal means. Before the propaganda, it used to come from liberty, freedom. Today being liberal means giving up personal freedoms like choosing whether to take medical treatments, and freedom to do whatever you want without government intervention. Equality as a value used to mean to treat people equally without discrimination, but the value was distorted to mean you should intentionally discriminate in favor of the supposedly victimized and weak races and women. Propaganda has successfully and silently distorted and redefined the entire ideological foundations of liberal democracy. There's people on the left that call themselves democratic and liberal very loudly but their versions of democracy and liberty are completely different words, only sharing the same letters. With the current trajectory, I'll be surprised if anyone will even know their real meaning in 40 years. Words are just letters, the semantics come from usage. They don't come from the dictionary. Just like AI is trained on input, so are humans. They can be trained to have different semantic meaning in their head for whatever word you want, as long as their inputs are flooded with that usage of the word. You can continuously transform a liberal democracy into an authoritarian state, while in every point in the process people will still call it liberal democracy. It's all about the internal semantics in people's heads.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

The claimed end game, or the actual end game? The claimed end game is that it removes oppression from those who have been oppressed, and they are free to flourish. The actual end game? I suspect that it's going to be very complicated. This may keep some people from dropping out, which is a positive. But it's going to leave a bunch of people with an "education" that is close to worthless, of little value in the real world. In the real world, the right answer matters. So a bunch of these people are going to grow up and find out that the world values their abilities very little. The options left are either poverty or a life of welfare support, depending on how much they can appeal to the conscience of the larger society. If you have children, and you care about their future, you need to be paying attention to what's going on with their education. The days of being able to just hand them over to the public school system and trust them to do an adequate job are over, if they ever existed.

orangepurple 5y ago
> So a bunch of these people are going to grow up and find out that the world values their abilities very little. The options left are either poverty or a life of welfare support, depending on how much they can appeal to the conscience of the larger society. This will be the next crisis for sure. It is only logical. I wonder how that will play out?

oceanghost 5y ago

Racism. It's pretty simple. The real thing that CRT accomplishes is the acceptance of its predicate-- Namely, that we can be divided into simple groups almost always by sight, and then are somehow guilty by association for what others who look like us have done, in the past, regardless of our actual connection to those events. That's just a restatement of racism and original sin. I say it's original sin because--there's nothing you can do to change things or make yourself better. You are permanently damned by what the worst person ever with your skin tone did. I say racism because it redefines racism in such a way that racism towards men and whites is mostly OK. The goal here really isn't to move the pendulum to the center, its to move it the opposite direction where white men in particular are the lowest status. I do believe in structural racism, but I wonder sometimes how much of the racism on the right could have been avoided if we hadn't told them they were all irredeemable racists and that we hated them. The vitriol kind of makes everyone have to pick a side.

krapp 5y ago
> but I wonder sometimes how much of the racism on the right could have been avoided if we hadn't told them they were all irredeemable racists and that we hated them. The vitriol kind of makes everyone have to pick a side. It doesn't though. You can be a white person, even a white Conservative, be opposed to CRT and not "pick a side." If their response to being called racist is to lean even harder into the racism, that just proves that their critics had a point.
- oceanghost 5y ago
  That's exactly the bullshit I'm talking about. If there's only two places to go, and one sides tells you they hate you, you will go the other place. Works on both sides.
  - krapp 5y ago
    >If there's only two places to go, and one sides tells you they hate you, you will go the other place. There are never "only two places to go," nor are there only two "sides." You need to be racist to begin with to view social politics in such reductionist terms, such that all paths somehow lead to a justification of hating people rather than simply disagreeing with their ideas.