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It's actually worse, it's 26% for the larger businesses subject to the 30% rate which make up 99% of Google's revenue, when using their own billing system. It's

It's actually worse, it's 26% for the larger businesses subject to the 30% rate which make up 99% of Google's revenue, when using their own billing system. It's a farce and Google knows it. (Similarly bull----, Apple claims their existing practices already comply with South Korea's new laws... which they definitely do not.) The penalty for noncompliance is so low because the money is so huge, and nobody will go to jail, that they are going to pull every stunt in the book until someone has the guts to start shutting these companies down. By claiming they are complying technically, while obviously not, they force the government to follow up the legislation with a regulatory action, which then they can tie up in the courts for years. If they complied with the law properly now, other countries would quickly follow suit. But if they can tie up the attempt for a number of years, they can all pad out their retirement funds before all the litigation is over and duck out before the stocks crash.

emodendroket 5y ago
OK, let's imagine South Korea "shuts Google and Apple down" (kicks them out of the country, I guess, and then bans anybody from importing their products). Now what? Seems like they just don't have smart phones and torched a pretty productive part of their economy (i.e., producing Android phones), and it's not clear where independent app developers are supposed to be developing their stuff anymore.
- oblio 5y ago
  Or this could force phone companies to create alternative, more open forks of the supposedly Open Source Android. It's not like we don't know how to do this stuff, we just don't invest enough in it.
  - izacus 5y ago
    South Korean company tried to do just that - they built an OS called "Tizen" which withered and died because without user-facing software, it was a horrible user experience and people were seriously annoyed that they couldn't use the software they actually care about. Instead, they went and bought Google/Apple devices instead. Another USA company tried to do that as well. They called their OS "Windows Phone" and it withered and died because a fractured support for software people care about doesn't make a useful device. A Chinese company tried to do that as well. They now again ship Google Services next to their own Huawei services in Europe because without software support, their smart devices weren't useful to users either.
    - oblio 5y ago
      You're almost there, but you didn't go all the way. South Korea is a small market. The US company is famous for mismanaging its mobile operating systems for more than 2 decades. The Chinese company didn't "try" to do that, it was forced to. But guess what, in China, where most external apps are banned, there's an entire, completely separate ecosystem. You do need a combination of skill and critical mass. I don't expect South Korea to achieve this, but for example if there's a bigger alliance of say, South Korea, the EU, etc., where they put resources into encouraging an OS based on open standards, that starts to look feasible. App developers will need support, but they can port their apps. Especially since this OS doesn't need to start from scratch, it can be based on AOSP. That's probably the biggest thing Google/Apple are afraid of this point, that a fully open/interoperable mobile OS is somehow enforced. They either have to open up their OSes to be in key markets or they're forced to let someone else create that OS.
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        South Korea has its own Galapagos Island situation with apps thanks to efforts to foster them by the government — eg Google Maps is seriously crippled and you have to use Kakao Maps, they have their own local version of Uber, etc, etc
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      "without software support, their smart devices weren't useful to users either." Therefore, logically, Apple should be the one paying app developers 30% of their revenue. Witout them iPhone would be an overpriced paperweight.
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        The relationship is symbiotic. iPhones need your apps to stay relevant, and developers need access to the iPhone ecosystem to be able to reach anybody.
        ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    If it were so easy Chinese companies would have already done it, having both more resources and an obvious incentive.
    - oblio 5y ago
      They have done it. Do you know how the Chinese smartphone app market works?
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        As far as I'm aware almost everything is still Android, even if they're not using the Play Store.
        oblio 5y ago
        Yeah, but Android is Open Source by design. All these governments don't have an issue with the code, they have issues with project governance.
        emodendroket 5y ago
        But they haven't gotten their own fork off the ground so they're still dependent on Google for continued updates.
        oblio 5y ago
        Yeah, but with enough of these "nudges", maybe it finally happens. The EU has already fined Google, South Korea is adding these new rules, I think even the US is thinking about some regulation, let's see what happens in a few years.
        emodendroket 5y ago
        Ultimately, my guess is that the military/China conflict angle prevails over antitrust when it comes to Google. But I could be wrong. Certainly China has cracked down on its side, which I didn't anticipate.
- Bobylonian 5y ago
  Samsung and Tizen OS(that comes with store) is already an alternative for South Korea. Though, so far Samsung has profited from cooperating with Android, as it gained unprecedented share for smartphone market. iPhone has branded itself as status symbol that people are rich and can pay and maintain lifestyle that includes ipHone - Androids, well - it is replacable and will be eventually.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    At the very least, if Samsung is compelled to exclusively make Tizen phones, I think they can pretty much kiss foreign sales good-bye. Though I guess they're in better shape than LG trying to license the OS from their chief competitor.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  "Now what? Seems like they just don't have smart phones and torched a pretty productive part of their economy" So you are saying Google / Apple are above the law, capitalism is more important than democracy? Where does this end? They might as well start acting as mafia, resort to raketeering and break you legs if you don't show up for work.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    No, I’m not saying that. I’m saying there is a reason we have a regulatory regime with all the safeguards you’re decrying instead of randomly axing companies.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      You reasons seems to be that Apple and Google are holding us hostage. Is there any other reason i missed?
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        Sure, in the same sense the power plant "holds us hostage" so we don't respond to malfeasance by not having electricity anymore.
dwaite 5y ago
I have not found an English translation of the South Korean regulations - do you know what clause(s) Apple does not comply with?

emodendroket 5y ago

OK, let's imagine South Korea "shuts Google and Apple down" (kicks them out of the country, I guess, and then bans anybody from importing their products). Now what? Seems like they just don't have smart phones and torched a pretty productive part of their economy (i.e., producing Android phones), and it's not clear where independent app developers are supposed to be developing their stuff anymore.

oblio 5y ago
Or this could force phone companies to create alternative, more open forks of the supposedly Open Source Android. It's not like we don't know how to do this stuff, we just don't invest enough in it.
- izacus 5y ago
  South Korean company tried to do just that - they built an OS called "Tizen" which withered and died because without user-facing software, it was a horrible user experience and people were seriously annoyed that they couldn't use the software they actually care about. Instead, they went and bought Google/Apple devices instead. Another USA company tried to do that as well. They called their OS "Windows Phone" and it withered and died because a fractured support for software people care about doesn't make a useful device. A Chinese company tried to do that as well. They now again ship Google Services next to their own Huawei services in Europe because without software support, their smart devices weren't useful to users either.
  - oblio 5y ago
    You're almost there, but you didn't go all the way. South Korea is a small market. The US company is famous for mismanaging its mobile operating systems for more than 2 decades. The Chinese company didn't "try" to do that, it was forced to. But guess what, in China, where most external apps are banned, there's an entire, completely separate ecosystem. You do need a combination of skill and critical mass. I don't expect South Korea to achieve this, but for example if there's a bigger alliance of say, South Korea, the EU, etc., where they put resources into encouraging an OS based on open standards, that starts to look feasible. App developers will need support, but they can port their apps. Especially since this OS doesn't need to start from scratch, it can be based on AOSP. That's probably the biggest thing Google/Apple are afraid of this point, that a fully open/interoperable mobile OS is somehow enforced. They either have to open up their OSes to be in key markets or they're forced to let someone else create that OS.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      South Korea has its own Galapagos Island situation with apps thanks to efforts to foster them by the government — eg Google Maps is seriously crippled and you have to use Kakao Maps, they have their own local version of Uber, etc, etc
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    "without software support, their smart devices weren't useful to users either." Therefore, logically, Apple should be the one paying app developers 30% of their revenue. Witout them iPhone would be an overpriced paperweight.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      The relationship is symbiotic. iPhones need your apps to stay relevant, and developers need access to the iPhone ecosystem to be able to reach anybody.
      - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
- emodendroket 5y ago
  If it were so easy Chinese companies would have already done it, having both more resources and an obvious incentive.
  - oblio 5y ago
    They have done it. Do you know how the Chinese smartphone app market works?
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      As far as I'm aware almost everything is still Android, even if they're not using the Play Store.
      - oblio 5y ago
        Yeah, but Android is Open Source by design. All these governments don't have an issue with the code, they have issues with project governance.
        emodendroket 5y ago
        But they haven't gotten their own fork off the ground so they're still dependent on Google for continued updates.
        oblio 5y ago
        Yeah, but with enough of these "nudges", maybe it finally happens. The EU has already fined Google, South Korea is adding these new rules, I think even the US is thinking about some regulation, let's see what happens in a few years.
        emodendroket 5y ago
        Ultimately, my guess is that the military/China conflict angle prevails over antitrust when it comes to Google. But I could be wrong. Certainly China has cracked down on its side, which I didn't anticipate.
Bobylonian 5y ago
Samsung and Tizen OS(that comes with store) is already an alternative for South Korea. Though, so far Samsung has profited from cooperating with Android, as it gained unprecedented share for smartphone market. iPhone has branded itself as status symbol that people are rich and can pay and maintain lifestyle that includes ipHone - Androids, well - it is replacable and will be eventually.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  At the very least, if Samsung is compelled to exclusively make Tizen phones, I think they can pretty much kiss foreign sales good-bye. Though I guess they're in better shape than LG trying to license the OS from their chief competitor.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"Now what? Seems like they just don't have smart phones and torched a pretty productive part of their economy" So you are saying Google / Apple are above the law, capitalism is more important than democracy? Where does this end? They might as well start acting as mafia, resort to raketeering and break you legs if you don't show up for work.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  No, I’m not saying that. I’m saying there is a reason we have a regulatory regime with all the safeguards you’re decrying instead of randomly axing companies.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    You reasons seems to be that Apple and Google are holding us hostage. Is there any other reason i missed?
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      Sure, in the same sense the power plant "holds us hostage" so we don't respond to malfeasance by not having electricity anymore.

dwaite 5y ago

I have not found an English translation of the South Korean regulations - do you know what clause(s) Apple does not comply with?