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> Much of it has to do with the overall instability of electric vehicles in general — especially SUVs I thought electric vehicles were more 'stable'? Or am I m
by chrisseaton 5y ago
> Much of it has to do with the overall instability of electric vehicles in general — especially SUVs
I thought electric vehicles were more 'stable'? Or am I misunderstanding that? They're mostly solid state. What's unstable?
And why are SUVs even less stable?
- drewg123 5y agoI have a 2017 Model X that I bought new. The EV part is great, its everything else that sucks. Since I've had it, I've taken it for service for the following: o Arrived w/o Tow pkg (Tesla "forgot" it, was installed via service center appt) o falcon wing doors improperly adjusted, leading to wind noise and water intrusion o Loud wind noise and fogging passenger side windows: Due to improperly installed "triangle" window on passenger door o Worn half shafts caused shudder under acceleration, replaced at ~20k miles o fogging drivers side A pillar camera after rain, leading to "navigate on autopilot unavailable" o Drove in "low" mode to preserve half shafts, caused excessive tire wear. Wore inner rear tires down to a puncture around 30k miles. Replaced tires and had car re-aligned to run in "low" mode. o Half shafts replaced again at 38k miles o Upper control arms shot around 39k miles, car out of warranty, and Tesla wants $1k to fix. All in all, I'm thinking to get a different car since I need a car that works. I don't want a non-Tesla EV since the charging options for non-Tesla EVs suck. I'm currently looking at PHEVs.
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- orangepurple 5y agoI am interested in an itemized total cost of ownership. This sounds like a pretty incredible experience for an electric car. I don't think I paid more than $140 in synthetic oil and filter changes since I purchased my gas only Toyota new 50,000 miles ago and that's my only expense so far besides gas.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- chrisseaton 5y agoIt's bizarre that the car is out of warranty already at only four years. Have they driven it 100k miles or something?
- mehrdada 5y agoMost cars in the US have 3-4yr "bumper-to-bumper" warranty and 5-6yr for powertrain. Tesla has 8yr only for battery/drive unit. Warranty for the rest of the car runs out at 4yr or 50k miles (plan to replace S door handles [although less so] & air suspension for S/X). Luckily 3/Y don't have air suspension or fancy doors/handles.
- drewg123 5y agoIt has 39K miles on it. The warranty for the "misc" stuff that breaks is 4 years, 50K miles. I'm just past the 4 year mark.
- lotsofpulp 5y agoCost per mile on a Toyota, including fuel, regular maintenance, insurance, depreciation, etc is most certainly much lower than Tesla. What I am curious about is if fuel prices flatten or become cheaper, will people still keep flicking to electric vehicles?
- vsskanth 5y agoAll these seem like mechanical or assembly issues other auto manufacturers have already figured out. Very rarely hear these days about control arms failing with traditional automakers vehicles.
- bmitc 5y agoI've surmised for a while that it's simply impossible, sans magic, for Tesla to have supposedly surpassed other car manufacturers when those other car manufacturers have decades of experience honing their designs for reliability and quality. I've said many times that my Kia has better quality feel than any Tesla I've been in.
- DeathArrow 5y agoWhat Kia do you own?
- bmitc 5y agoOptima SXL If I was in the market for a new electric car, I'd definitely be considering the Kia EV6. Which supports the point I've made before that I seriously doubt Tesla can compete with other manufacturers' ability to spin up reliable and quality new models.
- crackercrews 5y agoThis sounds awful. Are things any better with more recent model years? IDK when the X came out, but a 2017 was probably pretty early, right?
- ryzvonusef 5y agoModel X is just a badly designed car, it needs to be taken out to the back and shot. But I feel it just earns them too much money from the people trying to show off the dancing falcon doors to scrap it.
- chrisseaton 5y agoThey need the Model X, because the squat, flat 'sedan' body style of all their other cars seems very out of date these days. They do it for air resistance I think, but most people want a much more upright car.
- blitzar 5y ago> the squat, flat 'sedan' body style of all their other cars seems very out of date these days In the non american world, where "trucks" are not a daily commuter, a sedan is not out of date. Nor is a hatchback, nor is a ferrari. The family wagon, truck and hybrid truck/suv have been an out of date style for the last 50 years in the developed world.
- ramphastidae 5y agoSUVs have not been around for 50 years …
- googlerx 5y agoSure they have. Chevy Blazer and Ford Bronco came out in the late 60s.
- ramphastidae 5y agoWow, you’re right! I had no idea. Thanks. 1965 Ford Bronco: https://images.app.goo.gl/P4seF3jQfQfs69oL9 https://images.app.goo.gl/P4seF3jQfQfs69oL9
- ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
- ridiculous_fish 5y agoPlease say more about the "charging options for non-Tesla EVs suck." Is that all about superchargers or is there more to it?
- Closi 5y agoI don’t have an electric car but my parents have an electric non-Tesla one, and say that firstly you have to sign up to accounts with loads of different companies just to use them, and then secondly it’s really common to arrive at one and it just doesn’t work or there is only a few and charge points which are full. Teslas currently have the advantage of the extra supercharge network, although in the Uk that is being opened to other electric cars which will level the playing field.
- ericmay 5y agoIf you have a non-Tesla EV you’re really reliant on finding some wall to plug in to. If you are just driving around town, cool you’re good to go and you just go home. If you’re taking a trip for a few hours then you need to charge and that’s where you run into trouble. With Tesla there’s all the Superchargers so that few hour trip is fine with a quick 20 minute charge. For other EVs it’s a few hours at best. This will be a solved problem in the future though. Just growing pains.
- cromka 5y ago> For other EVs it’s a few hours at best. Absolutely not true. This is one of those things Tesla diehards keep repeating as if it was 2015 still. You have commercial super-chargers widely available already that can charge a car 80% in 20 minutes: https://youtu.be/ZgeZikh88Wc?t=776 https://youtu.be/ZgeZikh88Wc?t=776
- ericmay 5y agoI’ll check that out but as an EV owner over the course of a few years even the Supercharger network isn’t widespread enough. So I’m not ready to buy that there is an alternative that’s as good as that network already. This looks more like the “see you can drive from LA to NYC” road-trip stuff from the early Tesla days. Things will expand for sure and I’m happy about it, but this looks like marketing to me. You own and drive an EV I take it? What’s your experience been like?
- gregjor 5y agoClearly you don’t understand what disruption means. For Tesla it means rediscovering and reinventing everything about making reliable automobiles profitably, because those old legacy companies just can’t innovate. And it means keeping the sails full with lots of hot air and hype. Tesla has futuristic robot factories, don’t you know? What other manufacturer innovated with a huge touchscreen glued to the dash?
- ericmay 5y agoI sold my 2020 Model X because of the half shafts (wtf are those) issue. It’s a complete design flaw and it’ll never stop degrading and requiring a new repair. Even had that confirmed by the service center. Newest Model X design supposedly fixes that. Maybe Tesla will get sued over it idk. With the pandemic the prices for used Tesla’s is through the stratosphere and although I sold too early I drove the MX for 9 months before selling it for what I paid for it. Had unlimited free Supercharging too… :/ My advice: get out while you can and the prices are so high. We are working from home so just drive a Model 3. Waiting on a Model Y and will sell the 3. Great cars though.
- c-swa 5y agoHalf-shafts exist on (almost) every vehicle. They’re also called CV-Axles, essentially they allow independent suspension travel with wheels, traditional axles are stiff and carry wheel movement to the opposite side. I have a ‘99 Isuzu Rodeo that I spent a weekend replacing a half-shaft two years ago.
- chrisseaton 5y agoWhat modern cars don’t have half-shafts? You get wheels hanging in the air and no traction with full-shafts.
- ericmay 5y agoSorry, I didn't mean to suggest they aren't a critical component, just had no idea what they are/were. I'm more of a "does this thing turn on? Cool" kind of car guy.
- madengr 5y agoHave a look at a Honda Clarity. 40 miles on a charge then 50 MPG on a 7 gallon tank.
- dredmorbius 5y agoThe quoted Reuters piece references reliability, not instability. "Electric SUVs as a vehicle category is the absolute bottom in terms of reliability," Consumer Reports director of vehicle testing Jake Fisher said Thursday during a presentation to the Detroit Automotive Press Association. https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/tesla-electric-suvs-get-poor-scores-consumer-reports-2021-11-18/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/tesla-electric-suvs-get... There's no reference at all to instability in the article. I suspect a transcription error on the part of SFGate and Joshua Bote.
- rdhatt 5y agoI think it's poor word choice from the author, not a transcription error. The article refers to 'stability' a second time at the end of article as well: As a result, it makes sense that even though Tesla and Lincoln are the lowest-ranked in terms of reliability, they continue to fare well among its buyers and rank high on its customer satisfaction index — proof that buyers may value brand loyalty and innovation over stability. I believe 'stability' here refers to "an overall pattern of reliability", and not describing road handling. If the author wanted to use another word, perhaps 'dependability' would better than 'stability'.
- bmitc 5y agoThe Reuters article mentions this: > Electric vehicle drive systems, or powertrains, are not the main source of problems, Fisher said. The issues reported by owners are with other features. > Manufacturers "are using EVs as a technological test bed," Fisher said. "Those are the things that go wrong." That's instability leading to poor reliability.
- dredmorbius 5y agoI can see that. I still don't think it's a good word choice. If it's about the predictability of a given vehicle's projected maintenance requirements, use unreliability. If it's about the excessive technology leading to unreliability, maybe discuss complexity. And if it's about a quality record of the manufacturer which changes markedly over time, discuss variability or inconsistency. But I'd expect instability in discussion of vehicle-related matters to refer to road-handling, steering, or the like. If that's the case, then discuss uneven handling. And if it's not the case, then avoid confusion (or unjustified criticism) that might be caused. If you've got to argue for or justify the language in a mass publication, it's poor language.
- pleb_nz 5y agoThey have a higher center of gravity? /s
- bmitc 5y agoI don't see it as a comment on the energy source or even drivetrain. From the article: > The issue, Consumer Reports’ Fisher told CNBC, is that the company has the tendency to “add so much tech that is not necessary.” And while this makes for a product that varies wildly from year to year, it is part of the Tesla brand that enthusiasts adore. From the linked Reuters article: > Electric vehicle drive systems, or powertrains, are not the main source of problems, Fisher said. The issues reported by owners are with other features. > Manufacturers "are using EVs as a technological test bed," Fisher said. "Those are the things that go wrong."