3 ms·

Are there times when you prefer Java EE over Spring and the like? Java EE does some things well, but it seems like lots of comparable libraries/etc are offered

by bitops 15y ago

Are there times when you prefer Java EE over Spring and the like? Java EE does some things well, but it seems like lots of comparable libraries/etc are offered in the open source side of things. Not knocking, really just curious about your opinion.

hello_moto 15y ago
Maybe it's preference/bias but I found the latest Java EE6 offers a lot simpler programming model than its predecessor or Spring. I also prefer to stick with 1 container as opposed to mix-n-match Spring modules + Hibernate + Apache CXF/Axis2 or whatnot. Most libraries out there boasted that they implement the JSR standard but they don't stop there as they also added their own extensions + configurations. There are a few missing parts in Java EE: MVC and dealing with NoSQL which both will be addressed in Java EE7 from what I know. Spring has SpringMVC and SpringData so they're ahead right now. What I don't like from Spring is the complexity of the setup (dependency, albeit Maven helps) and knowing various Spring modules and how they works with your preferred app-server. With Spring, at some point, you need to know a few key integration points between Spring and your app-server. For example: deploying an EAR solution that contains multiple WARs and JARs would require to understand Spring lifecycle, setup/configuration if you'd like to behave according to your requirement. A plus point using Java EE6 is to trim down your EAR/WAR. Spring pulls many JARs.
- bitops 15y ago
  That's a fair point, I guess I've been spoiled. I guess I just don't mind knowing those integration points and working with them, but I can definitely see how it would put a bad taste in your mouth after a while. The NoSQL integration I think will be big. I know some folks using SpringData to talk to MongoDB and they've had positive experiences so far. Maybe in the future things will get simpler - so far I've found that I'm pretty happy with either embedded Jetty or Tomcat. And then Spring/Jersey + Hibernate/JPA. Have you found that EAR/WAR size has hampered you? I tend not to worry about how many JARs I'm pulling.
  - hello_moto 15y ago
    I use GF3.1 as they are the only one that implement JEE6 in full. There's an issue with deploy/undeploy app (memory leak due to pushing ClassLoader to the edge) which is kind of annoying to me personally because we do frequent build/deploy. I wish we can use Jetty (I used Jetty, Servlet, GWT in my previous company) since it is way leaner and faster to reboot; especially via Maven. Although I've never measured the deployment performance, I'm quite sure the smaller your EAR/WAR size the faster it deploys because the ClassLoader is required to scan + load those libraries (again, it depends on the behavior of your library: up-front or lazy loading).
    - kaffeinecoma 15y ago
      I recently moved from Glassfish back to good old Tomcat because of this classloader leak. With GF, I could typically do no more than 1-2 redeploys before having to kill -9 it. That was really painful. We found that we weren't really using many GF/JEE features that couldn't be added to Tomcat as a simple jar dependency (J2EE connection pooling was one nice built-in, but we'll use c3p0 or something similar soon). Tomcat is a breath of fresh air- starts/stops in < 4 seconds, and redeploys never hang.
    - shelajev 15y ago
      You definitely want to try jrebel to solve your problems with redeploys and wasting time. It'll reload your classes and resource as you compile/provide them. Check it out, http://zeroturnaround.com http://zeroturnaround.com . disclaimer: I work there, but jrebel is awesome anyway.
      - hello_moto 15y ago
        I have heard of JRebel for a while but have not had the case to need this until now. Is it free for development? PS: I saw someone from JRebel did a presentation about ClassLoader before, you guys really know what you are doing. Respect man! :)

by bitops 15y ago

hello_moto 15y ago

Maybe it's preference/bias but I found the latest Java EE6 offers a lot simpler programming model than its predecessor or Spring. I also prefer to stick with 1 container as opposed to mix-n-match Spring modules + Hibernate + Apache CXF/Axis2 or whatnot. Most libraries out there boasted that they implement the JSR standard but they don't stop there as they also added their own extensions + configurations. There are a few missing parts in Java EE: MVC and dealing with NoSQL which both will be addressed in Java EE7 from what I know. Spring has SpringMVC and SpringData so they're ahead right now. What I don't like from Spring is the complexity of the setup (dependency, albeit Maven helps) and knowing various Spring modules and how they works with your preferred app-server. With Spring, at some point, you need to know a few key integration points between Spring and your app-server. For example: deploying an EAR solution that contains multiple WARs and JARs would require to understand Spring lifecycle, setup/configuration if you'd like to behave according to your requirement. A plus point using Java EE6 is to trim down your EAR/WAR. Spring pulls many JARs.

bitops 15y ago
That's a fair point, I guess I've been spoiled. I guess I just don't mind knowing those integration points and working with them, but I can definitely see how it would put a bad taste in your mouth after a while. The NoSQL integration I think will be big. I know some folks using SpringData to talk to MongoDB and they've had positive experiences so far. Maybe in the future things will get simpler - so far I've found that I'm pretty happy with either embedded Jetty or Tomcat. And then Spring/Jersey + Hibernate/JPA. Have you found that EAR/WAR size has hampered you? I tend not to worry about how many JARs I'm pulling.
- hello_moto 15y ago
  I use GF3.1 as they are the only one that implement JEE6 in full. There's an issue with deploy/undeploy app (memory leak due to pushing ClassLoader to the edge) which is kind of annoying to me personally because we do frequent build/deploy. I wish we can use Jetty (I used Jetty, Servlet, GWT in my previous company) since it is way leaner and faster to reboot; especially via Maven. Although I've never measured the deployment performance, I'm quite sure the smaller your EAR/WAR size the faster it deploys because the ClassLoader is required to scan + load those libraries (again, it depends on the behavior of your library: up-front or lazy loading).
  - kaffeinecoma 15y ago
    I recently moved from Glassfish back to good old Tomcat because of this classloader leak. With GF, I could typically do no more than 1-2 redeploys before having to kill -9 it. That was really painful. We found that we weren't really using many GF/JEE features that couldn't be added to Tomcat as a simple jar dependency (J2EE connection pooling was one nice built-in, but we'll use c3p0 or something similar soon). Tomcat is a breath of fresh air- starts/stops in < 4 seconds, and redeploys never hang.
  - shelajev 15y ago
    You definitely want to try jrebel to solve your problems with redeploys and wasting time. It'll reload your classes and resource as you compile/provide them. Check it out, http://zeroturnaround.com http://zeroturnaround.com . disclaimer: I work there, but jrebel is awesome anyway.
    - hello_moto 15y ago
      I have heard of JRebel for a while but have not had the case to need this until now. Is it free for development? PS: I saw someone from JRebel did a presentation about ClassLoader before, you guys really know what you are doing. Respect man! :)