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All that technology, yet you need more identification to open a gmail account than you do to vote in a United States federal election. They can't even use it to

All that technology, yet you need more identification to open a gmail account than you do to vote in a United States federal election. They can't even use it to transparently monitor what was arguably the most controversial election of our lifetime. It's like the United States government is willing to use technology in elections, but only in ways that don't fundamentally matter.

akhosravian 5y ago
The US federal government doesn’t run elections. The individual states set the rules, and they are run based on those rules at a hyper local (sub city sized) level.
Teever 5y ago
Rank the following aspects of the US voting system in descending order of importance w.r.t. election outcomes accurately reflecting electorate voting intention. A. Convoluted ballots B. Electronic voting C. Voter ID D. Gerrymandering E. Super PACs F. Convicted Felon voting eligibility G. The Electoral College H. First past the post I. Two party system J. Mail in ballots As a Canadian who has worked at several polling stations on election day for Elections Canada I'm appalled at the state of democracy in the United States and the continually flabbergasted by the obsession over voting ID by some Americans. Canadians vote for representatives in non-gerrymandered districts in a process that involves simple paper ballots that are almost always counted with results finalized the night of the election. The process is simple, transparent and most curiously does not mandate ID. To an outsider watching Americans complain about voter ID laws is like watching someone standing in a burning house complaining that the power just went out. There are so many bigger issues with the American voting process and if those issues were resolved/mitigated you'd see that whatever issues arise from non-mandated voter ID are most often statistically negligible and easily identifiable.
- tata71 5y ago
  > in a process that involves simple paper ballots that are almost always counted with results finalized the night of the election. 40 million people in Canada 400 million in USA Is it the same?
  - impendingchange 5y ago
    How did they do it before technology?
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      Paper, stamps, and seals. Guess that's technology as well. Before then we just bashed each other with rocks I guess.
      - impendingchange 5y ago
        Sorry, I should have qualified it: How did they do it in one night before technology?
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Distribution. Local counties handle tallying, they report to state representatives whether it's pony express, telegraph, trucks or otherwise. States run their own elections and vote for candidates, electoral votes from states are tallied. Makes Santa Claus look like a bitch right?
  - Teever 5y ago
    40 million != 400 million, this is true but vote counting is an embarrassingly parallel problem that is easily solved by hiring many nonskilled workers. Vote counting is an activity that more or less requires basic literacy and numeracy and Western democracies that have switched over to service based economies have many surplus workers pre-trained for this sort of work.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  > The process is simple, transparent and most curiously does not mandate ID https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&do... Pretty sure you need an ID to vote in Canada. You could argue that you don't need ID if you have an address and proof but neither do you for suggested voter ID laws in the US. If you don't have a state ID or driver's license you can use a utility bill. But currently you do need ID in Canada or a backup form of identification. I really don't understand the argument against voter ID. Many have said that lower income can't afford it but do not want to talk about programs to subsidize state IDs or about talk about backup identification like utility bills. Also with the vaccine passport crap we seem to be fine segregating who can travel and eat. I agree there are bigger issues with the voting system (that is state level, not federal mind you), but that doesn't mean verification should be thrown out the window.
  - Teever 5y ago
    Look at option 3 in your link.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      > A person can vouch for only one person (except in long-term care institutions). That seems like a limited substitution for edge cases, definitely doesn't equate to the statement "no voter ID is needed"
      - Teever 5y ago
        Perhaps, but when there are people calling for mandatory voter ID with counterfeiting/authentication measures similar to passports and drivers licenses the Canadian system is laughably weak in comparison and hardly being worth being called 'ID'. One can easily edit a pdf of a bill and bank statement to have whatever name and address flash a copy of them on your phone and vote in Canada. It's basically an American Voter ID proponent's worst nightmare and yet it seems to work perfectly fine. Thinking that implementing mandatory Voter ID by itself is going to improve American democracy in any substantial way without introducing a myriad of unintended negative consequences is myopic at best and malicious at worst. From my perspective as a non-American the voter ID issue is a complete red herring promoted to distract from the real and glaring issues with the American voting process. What's really weird is that it seems to work.

akhosravian 5y ago

The US federal government doesn’t run elections. The individual states set the rules, and they are run based on those rules at a hyper local (sub city sized) level.

Teever 5y ago

Rank the following aspects of the US voting system in descending order of importance w.r.t. election outcomes accurately reflecting electorate voting intention. A. Convoluted ballots B. Electronic voting C. Voter ID D. Gerrymandering E. Super PACs F. Convicted Felon voting eligibility G. The Electoral College H. First past the post I. Two party system J. Mail in ballots As a Canadian who has worked at several polling stations on election day for Elections Canada I'm appalled at the state of democracy in the United States and the continually flabbergasted by the obsession over voting ID by some Americans. Canadians vote for representatives in non-gerrymandered districts in a process that involves simple paper ballots that are almost always counted with results finalized the night of the election. The process is simple, transparent and most curiously does not mandate ID. To an outsider watching Americans complain about voter ID laws is like watching someone standing in a burning house complaining that the power just went out. There are so many bigger issues with the American voting process and if those issues were resolved/mitigated you'd see that whatever issues arise from non-mandated voter ID are most often statistically negligible and easily identifiable.

tata71 5y ago
> in a process that involves simple paper ballots that are almost always counted with results finalized the night of the election. 40 million people in Canada 400 million in USA Is it the same?
- impendingchange 5y ago
  How did they do it before technology?
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    Paper, stamps, and seals. Guess that's technology as well. Before then we just bashed each other with rocks I guess.
    - impendingchange 5y ago
      Sorry, I should have qualified it: How did they do it in one night before technology?
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        Distribution. Local counties handle tallying, they report to state representatives whether it's pony express, telegraph, trucks or otherwise. States run their own elections and vote for candidates, electoral votes from states are tallied. Makes Santa Claus look like a bitch right?
- Teever 5y ago
  40 million != 400 million, this is true but vote counting is an embarrassingly parallel problem that is easily solved by hiring many nonskilled workers. Vote counting is an activity that more or less requires basic literacy and numeracy and Western democracies that have switched over to service based economies have many surplus workers pre-trained for this sort of work.
hunterb123 5y ago
> The process is simple, transparent and most curiously does not mandate ID https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&do... Pretty sure you need an ID to vote in Canada. You could argue that you don't need ID if you have an address and proof but neither do you for suggested voter ID laws in the US. If you don't have a state ID or driver's license you can use a utility bill. But currently you do need ID in Canada or a backup form of identification. I really don't understand the argument against voter ID. Many have said that lower income can't afford it but do not want to talk about programs to subsidize state IDs or about talk about backup identification like utility bills. Also with the vaccine passport crap we seem to be fine segregating who can travel and eat. I agree there are bigger issues with the voting system (that is state level, not federal mind you), but that doesn't mean verification should be thrown out the window.
- Teever 5y ago
  Look at option 3 in your link.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    > A person can vouch for only one person (except in long-term care institutions). That seems like a limited substitution for edge cases, definitely doesn't equate to the statement "no voter ID is needed"
    - Teever 5y ago
      Perhaps, but when there are people calling for mandatory voter ID with counterfeiting/authentication measures similar to passports and drivers licenses the Canadian system is laughably weak in comparison and hardly being worth being called 'ID'. One can easily edit a pdf of a bill and bank statement to have whatever name and address flash a copy of them on your phone and vote in Canada. It's basically an American Voter ID proponent's worst nightmare and yet it seems to work perfectly fine. Thinking that implementing mandatory Voter ID by itself is going to improve American democracy in any substantial way without introducing a myriad of unintended negative consequences is myopic at best and malicious at worst. From my perspective as a non-American the voter ID issue is a complete red herring promoted to distract from the real and glaring issues with the American voting process. What's really weird is that it seems to work.