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I would agree that any description of his misconduct not including reference to his literal bipolar manic state to be not painting the true picture. If we swap
by spadros 5y ago
I would agree that any description of his misconduct not including reference to his literal bipolar manic state to be not painting the true picture. If we swapped “bipolar” for “schizophrenic” would you have the same opinion?
- tptacek 5y agoI don't have to consider that counterfactual, since deBoer himself stated clearly that he knew the accusations he was making were false at the time he made them.
- johncolanduoni 5y agoI think you’re woefully uninformed about the nature of psychosis. Schizophrenic people are fully capable of telling intentional lies to combat a perceived threat, even when they are imagining that threat due to psychosis. Even for someone schizophrenic, not all psychosis is so dissociative as to not have a goal-oriented thought process at all.
- tptacek 5y agodeBoer isn't schizophrenic. Again: the counterfactual proposed here isn't useful.
- johncolanduoni 5y agoThe psychosis that schizophrenic people experience and that of bipolar people is not treated as two separate “kinds” of psychosis by medical professionals. They are treated with exact same medications. We even have a specific disorder name for people whose mental illness includes the overlapping features of both (schizoaffective). So I don’t think you can move the goalposts away from “schizophrenic people can’t intentionally lie due to psychosis” and pretend the counterfactual is totally irrelevant so easily.
- tptacek 5y agoI didn't say anything about what people with schizophrenia can or can't do. Please don't put quotes around things I didn't say when responding to me.
- johncolanduoni 5y agoPerhaps I misunderstood you, but I think the claims you made were quite clear. In response to the suggestion of the schizophrenia counterfactual, you wrote precisely: > I don't have to consider that counterfactual, since deBoer himself stated clearly that he knew the accusations he was making were false at the time he made them My understanding of that was that you saw the fact that “ clearly that he knew the accusations he was making were false at the time he made them” as a reason to disregard the counterfactual. Can you explain what you meant by that other than the suggestion that the latter half of that sentence was sufficiently inconsistent with schizophrenia as to render the comparison meaningless? I apologize for using quotes to distinguish the view I was referring to from the rest of the sentence. I thought it would be clear that I wasn’t quoting you since the comment I responded too was so short.
- tptacek 5y agoI used to get caught up by the same thing with quotation marks here. Not everyone loves the HN norm about it, but I've internalized it.
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- spadros 5y agoThanks a lot for clarifying this. The meds a bipolar will take are identical to the meds a schizophrenic will take for handling psychosis and paranoia.
- kayodelycaon 5y agoBipolar mania often comes with psychosis. The paranoia the author writes about is a classic symptom of both mania and schizophrenia.
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- kayodelycaon 5y agoYou're making the assumption that him knowing they were false meant he had a choice in saying them. When it comes to psychosis, your knowledge and your actions can become completely disconnected. For my manic episodes, I'm fully conscious and aware of what I'm doing, with no ability to stop what I'm doing. I'm in the passenger seat of a car driving off the cliff.