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For more context, this post has some cool interactive features to explain the voting types: https://ncase.me/ballot/ https://ncase.me/ballot/ Another problem w

For more context, this post has some cool interactive features to explain the voting types: https://ncase.me/ballot/ https://ncase.me/ballot/ Another problem with RCV is that it’s difficult to understand, at least when you get into the runoffs. That makes it harder for people to understand and trust the election system, which is also very important.

godelski 5y ago
I'm not too big of a fan of this site but it is nice. One thing I wanted to point out is the spoiler effect. Often we talk about it but similarly we generally only talk about a weak spoiler. So I wanted to show an example of a strong spoiler[0]. In this example Hexagon splits Triangles votes just by a little, but the sum of Triangle and Hex are larger than Square. But here IRV has Square winning but Approval has Hex winning. This is one big issue for me with IRV vs Cardinal systems. Both handle _weak_ spoilers but IRV doesn't handle ''strong,, spoilers. Understanding that these are two different types of spoilers is really important. It is "Bernie vs Hillary" and "Cruz vs Trump." Even with IRV we'd still see the parties trying to prevent strong primary candidates from running independently because they could spoil the election. With cardinal methods (approval, score, star) this is far less of a concern and thus I think more democratic of an election. I honestly think we should be much more concerned with strong spoilers than weak spoilers (weak spoilers don't affect elections much anyways). [0] https://imgur.com/a/vV15A7Z https://imgur.com/a/vV15A7Z
- noahtallen 5y ago
  I completely agree; I tend to like approval voting just because it is nearly as good as the other scoring methods while being very simple.
  - godelski 5y ago
    Exactly. I say STAR: 5, Score 4, approval 4, IRV 1, FPTP 1 It would be ranked in this order too, but there's more expressivity here than an ordinal system can provide.
- Apofis 5y ago
  Considering our present division, I have a big "spider-sense" tingle that approval voting will simply result in everyone just voting all blue or all red, that sounds like a bad deal to me. Run off voting would give moderates a good chance of putting the country right side up again.
  - godelski 5y ago
    > everyone just voting all blue or all red FWIW, this already happens. That will also happen under any system. I'm not sure why you think IRV encourages moderates. It actually encourages extremist candidates which is why I'm particularly against it.
    - madeofmeat 5y ago
      "Everyone" doesn't vote all-red or all-blue. 30% vote all red, 30% all blue, and 40% stay home because there is never a sensible centrist candidate. Each of the 30% active voters then get mistaken for 50% of citizens.

godelski 5y ago

I'm not too big of a fan of this site but it is nice. One thing I wanted to point out is the spoiler effect. Often we talk about it but similarly we generally only talk about a weak spoiler. So I wanted to show an example of a strong spoiler[0]. In this example Hexagon splits Triangles votes just by a little, but the sum of Triangle and Hex are larger than Square. But here IRV has Square winning but Approval has Hex winning. This is one big issue for me with IRV vs Cardinal systems. Both handle _weak_ spoilers but IRV doesn't handle ''strong,, spoilers. Understanding that these are two different types of spoilers is really important. It is "Bernie vs Hillary" and "Cruz vs Trump." Even with IRV we'd still see the parties trying to prevent strong primary candidates from running independently because they could spoil the election. With cardinal methods (approval, score, star) this is far less of a concern and thus I think more democratic of an election. I honestly think we should be much more concerned with strong spoilers than weak spoilers (weak spoilers don't affect elections much anyways). [0] https://imgur.com/a/vV15A7Z https://imgur.com/a/vV15A7Z

noahtallen 5y ago
I completely agree; I tend to like approval voting just because it is nearly as good as the other scoring methods while being very simple.
- godelski 5y ago
  Exactly. I say STAR: 5, Score 4, approval 4, IRV 1, FPTP 1 It would be ranked in this order too, but there's more expressivity here than an ordinal system can provide.
Apofis 5y ago
Considering our present division, I have a big "spider-sense" tingle that approval voting will simply result in everyone just voting all blue or all red, that sounds like a bad deal to me. Run off voting would give moderates a good chance of putting the country right side up again.
- godelski 5y ago
  > everyone just voting all blue or all red FWIW, this already happens. That will also happen under any system. I'm not sure why you think IRV encourages moderates. It actually encourages extremist candidates which is why I'm particularly against it.
  - madeofmeat 5y ago
    "Everyone" doesn't vote all-red or all-blue. 30% vote all red, 30% all blue, and 40% stay home because there is never a sensible centrist candidate. Each of the 30% active voters then get mistaken for 50% of citizens.