I suspect the difference in outlook is in defining "income". Earlier, a goal of "living off the gains" was states, implying to me either dividends or profitable

I suspect the difference in outlook is in defining "income". Earlier, a goal of "living off the gains" was states, implying to me either dividends or profitable sale of securities when you rebalance a portfolio. The fiscally conservative mindset is that in a downturn, dividends shrink. At the same time, being forced to sell securities to cover living expenses means "losing" money from your nest egg, not living off of gains. Someone with this view would be balancing their portfolio to have enough cash and/or bonds to support them through some unknown future, and only expect to sell stocks when the market is doing well, to realize gains. Then, one needs to consider the rate of return of such a safe portfolio...