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Batteries have much lower capacity, lower cost efficiency of storage, and lower weight efficiency of storage. They’re also slower to charge and slower to discha

Batteries have much lower capacity, lower cost efficiency of storage, and lower weight efficiency of storage. They’re also slower to charge and slower to discharge. Batteries are great for storing electricity efficiently as you say, but that only matters when electricity is marginally expensive (sourced from fossil fuels for example). However, if you have a cheap enough marginal cost of electricity, hydrogen is a better option because of the much cheaper fixed cost of hydrogen storage per kWH. A good way to see this: what option would you choose for storage if electricity on demand was free but only during certain parts of the day? A hydrogen tank or batteries? A hydrogen tank is cheaper. And clean energy is essentially free besides the fixed cost of the windmill/solar panel.

jacquesm 5y ago
> They’re also slower to charge and slower to discharge. Yes, but this is changing and there are a number of very interesting options. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery
- huntertwo 5y ago
  Very cool, there are definitely use cases where batteries are necessary (like moving vehicles) and it’s great to see advancement in battery tech. EDIT: These batteries seem to be even less energy dense than Li-ion which is one of the weaknesses of batteries in comparison to hydrogen.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Yes, that is their shortcoming for now, but for solar storage and such they are an interesting option.
Someone 5y ago
> Batteries are great for storing electricity efficiently In some cases not even that. Modern Lithium-ion batteries are quite good, but self-discharge still is 2-3%/month. So, if you want to store for months (say charging a battery using the summer sun to heat a house in winter), you easily lose 10% to self-discharge, in addition to what you lose between charging and discharging. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discharge#Typical_self-discharge_by_battery_type https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discharge#Typical_self-di... says NiMH batteries even lose 30% per month.
- 8bitsrule 5y ago
  It also says "Low self-discharge NiMH : As low as 0.25% per month ... introduced in 2005 by Sanyo, branded Eneloop " 70-85% retained after a year is a lot better. Charge in the same charger. I used to use regular NiMH infrequently, the worst way to use them. Low sd way better for that application. Also NiMH doesn't lose capacity delivering high currents like AA alkaline does.

jacquesm 5y ago

> They’re also slower to charge and slower to discharge. Yes, but this is changing and there are a number of very interesting options. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery

huntertwo 5y ago
Very cool, there are definitely use cases where batteries are necessary (like moving vehicles) and it’s great to see advancement in battery tech. EDIT: These batteries seem to be even less energy dense than Li-ion which is one of the weaknesses of batteries in comparison to hydrogen.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Yes, that is their shortcoming for now, but for solar storage and such they are an interesting option.

Someone 5y ago

> Batteries are great for storing electricity efficiently In some cases not even that. Modern Lithium-ion batteries are quite good, but self-discharge still is 2-3%/month. So, if you want to store for months (say charging a battery using the summer sun to heat a house in winter), you easily lose 10% to self-discharge, in addition to what you lose between charging and discharging. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discharge#Typical_self-discharge_by_battery_type https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discharge#Typical_self-di... says NiMH batteries even lose 30% per month.

8bitsrule 5y ago
It also says "Low self-discharge NiMH : As low as 0.25% per month ... introduced in 2005 by Sanyo, branded Eneloop " 70-85% retained after a year is a lot better. Charge in the same charger. I used to use regular NiMH infrequently, the worst way to use them. Low sd way better for that application. Also NiMH doesn't lose capacity delivering high currents like AA alkaline does.