4 ms·

Is it? Anecdotally, I see a lot of news about conservatives trying to "cancel" books in their kids libraries whose topics they don't like, but regarding profess

Is it? Anecdotally, I see a lot of news about conservatives trying to "cancel" books in their kids libraries whose topics they don't like, but regarding professors, it seems like those getting cancelled are getting cancelled by the left, not the right.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dragontamer 5y ago
https://www.texastribune.org/2010/03/22/sboe-removes-thomas-jefferson-blames-media/ https://www.texastribune.org/2010/03/22/sboe-removes-thomas-... https://archive.thinkprogress.org/texas-board-of-education-cuts-thomas-jefferson-out-of-its-textbooks-477678f05e7f/ https://archive.thinkprogress.org/texas-board-of-education-c... Thomas Jefferson was successfully removed from all Texas schoolbooks, as one example of many. The Right is no stranger to censorship.
- stevenicr 5y ago
  You got me to wonder, thanks for providing the links. I have seen stories recently about removing Jefferson from the public view / cancelling him, based upon far-left / progressive / anti-racist/slavery ideals (I think/assume) that are removing monuments around the country (and murals and building names, etc), not right-wing censorship, so I was quite curious. sadly some of the supporting links are 404 on the thinkprogress page you linked to. However reading the texas tribune article it says that Jefferson was not removed from all Texas schoolbooks, it says that he was removed from a list of 'revolutionary thinkers' - the other references were all left in. - So this is kind of a red herring thing? From the TexasTribune Article you linked: "the Colbert Report got the board's move technically correct, noting it removed Jefferson from a list of "revolutionary thinkers," which is exactly what the board did. Colbert simply didn't provide the context that Jefferson was mentioned elsewhere. (Colbert, of course, is comedy and can't be held to journalistic standards.) " ... "None of the news stories from the day in The Dallas Morning News, the Houston Chronicle and San Antonio Express-News (which share state coverage), the Austin American-Statesman, and The Texas Tribune (that's me) mentioned the Jefferson amendment, much less asserted he had been removed entirely from the curriculum. " Not that I disagree that "The Right is no stranger to censorship." - however this is not a good example for such, and perhaps the bigger debate should center around what tactics of censoring should be out of bounds, and example of such from different 'sides'. Although it becomes tougher to paint sides when we have to wonder if a twitter mob is a side? if none of the leaders of a side are advocating for thing X - and which leaders are actual leaders of a side, and which influencers are a thing, and if 'leaders' denounce an influencer, then does it really count for/against a 'side'.. much to consider with all this.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    Say that what you will, but the Texas School Board is highly conservative and makes these decisions all the time. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-lawmaker-says-850-books-ranging-race-sexuality-cause-discomfort-rcna3953 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-lawmaker-says-850... > Along with the letter, which was first obtained by The Texas Tribune, Krause appended the book list that includes well-known titles like the Pulitzer Prize-winning William Styron novel, “The Confessions of Nat Turner” and best-sellers that were turned into movies or television series, such as John Irving’s “The Cider House Rules,” Alan Moore’s dystopian “V For Vendetta,” and the graphic novel version of Margaret Atwood’s “The Handmaid’s Tale.” Censorship, especially censorship applied to schools and education, is simply a tool of those in power to remain in power. In my experience, the conservative states seem to do it the most. The conservative states also force upon the textbook writers things like "Intelligent Design" or whatnot. ------- Book banning, removal of icons (Thomas Jefferson), etc. etc. Its all the same techniques. Conservatives simply ignore it when their peers do it, so you don't get to see those issues come up in conservative circles / conservative bubbles.
    - dlemire 5y ago
      The original claim was "the overwhelming majority of pressure to cancel books and academics is directed at the left by the right, regardless of what gets column inches and think-pieces." Many would say that the overwhelming majority of the academy is left of center. This makes it intuitive that if there is censorship of academics, then the recipients of the censorship would be people left of center. But I do not think it follows that the censors are on the right. I argue that most of the censorship on campus, be it people being uninvited or forced to resigned, comes from the academy itself. It is true that, quite possibly, the vast majority of the people being censored are on the left, but I think it is also true that the vast majority of the people censoring are also on the left. The right simply occupies very little room in the academy. It mostly exists outside of the academy. This is not to say that people on the right (mostly from outside of the academy) do not come in with censorious intentions... but my impression is that most universities are very well protected against external interventions. It is simply not the case that a business leader or a radio show host can easily censor a professor on campus. So if we are thinking about, say, college professors, I would say that we are mostly dealing with a left-left censorship. That is, the left is not this uniform block. Kathleen Stock is a leftist: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-59084446 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-59084446 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Stock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Stock Bret Weinstein is a leftist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Weinstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Weinstein Verushka Lieutenant-Duval is a leftist: https://arts.uottawa.ca/visualarts/people/lieutenant-duval-verushka https://arts.uottawa.ca/visualarts/people/lieutenant-duval-v... The people doing the cancelling were on the left.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Can we say that it's bad, no matter which side does it? And that both sides are doing it in different ways, and that's bad?
amusedcyclist 5y ago
Has any professor gotten fired for their views ? The worst thats happened is some people getting disinvited from conferences, hardly seems like censorship, just editorial disagreement
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  Is firing the only way to get cancelled? What about being suspended? Being strong armed into "volunteering" into stepping back from teaching/speaking roles? Having career-advancing opportunities pass you by "for some reason"? Never getting a job in the first place because of your reputation?
  - amusedcyclist 5y ago
    Can you provide some examples of these happening ? Or even better some statistics ?
    - oh_sigh 5y ago
      I'm not really keeping track, but I can immediately recall the professor who spoke about a chinese filler word, the chinese native music professor who showed his class a critically acclaimed film starring Laurence Olivier...
RickJWagner 5y ago
The books I have seen would never have been allowed in past years. I saw an article this week about an NPR show featuring a book that was 'cancelled' from school libraries. NPR neglected to show the most egregeous illustrations, which included explicit sex scenes. We can't move the goalposts. Some books deserve to be kept out of reach of kids. These are the types I have seen in discussions. Nobody's on the right is trying to cancel anything that would've been acceptable in 2000.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dragontamer 5y ago

https://www.texastribune.org/2010/03/22/sboe-removes-thomas-jefferson-blames-media/ https://www.texastribune.org/2010/03/22/sboe-removes-thomas-... https://archive.thinkprogress.org/texas-board-of-education-cuts-thomas-jefferson-out-of-its-textbooks-477678f05e7f/ https://archive.thinkprogress.org/texas-board-of-education-c... Thomas Jefferson was successfully removed from all Texas schoolbooks, as one example of many. The Right is no stranger to censorship.

stevenicr 5y ago
You got me to wonder, thanks for providing the links. I have seen stories recently about removing Jefferson from the public view / cancelling him, based upon far-left / progressive / anti-racist/slavery ideals (I think/assume) that are removing monuments around the country (and murals and building names, etc), not right-wing censorship, so I was quite curious. sadly some of the supporting links are 404 on the thinkprogress page you linked to. However reading the texas tribune article it says that Jefferson was not removed from all Texas schoolbooks, it says that he was removed from a list of 'revolutionary thinkers' - the other references were all left in. - So this is kind of a red herring thing? From the TexasTribune Article you linked: "the Colbert Report got the board's move technically correct, noting it removed Jefferson from a list of "revolutionary thinkers," which is exactly what the board did. Colbert simply didn't provide the context that Jefferson was mentioned elsewhere. (Colbert, of course, is comedy and can't be held to journalistic standards.) " ... "None of the news stories from the day in The Dallas Morning News, the Houston Chronicle and San Antonio Express-News (which share state coverage), the Austin American-Statesman, and The Texas Tribune (that's me) mentioned the Jefferson amendment, much less asserted he had been removed entirely from the curriculum. " Not that I disagree that "The Right is no stranger to censorship." - however this is not a good example for such, and perhaps the bigger debate should center around what tactics of censoring should be out of bounds, and example of such from different 'sides'. Although it becomes tougher to paint sides when we have to wonder if a twitter mob is a side? if none of the leaders of a side are advocating for thing X - and which leaders are actual leaders of a side, and which influencers are a thing, and if 'leaders' denounce an influencer, then does it really count for/against a 'side'.. much to consider with all this.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Say that what you will, but the Texas School Board is highly conservative and makes these decisions all the time. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-lawmaker-says-850-books-ranging-race-sexuality-cause-discomfort-rcna3953 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-lawmaker-says-850... > Along with the letter, which was first obtained by The Texas Tribune, Krause appended the book list that includes well-known titles like the Pulitzer Prize-winning William Styron novel, “The Confessions of Nat Turner” and best-sellers that were turned into movies or television series, such as John Irving’s “The Cider House Rules,” Alan Moore’s dystopian “V For Vendetta,” and the graphic novel version of Margaret Atwood’s “The Handmaid’s Tale.” Censorship, especially censorship applied to schools and education, is simply a tool of those in power to remain in power. In my experience, the conservative states seem to do it the most. The conservative states also force upon the textbook writers things like "Intelligent Design" or whatnot. ------- Book banning, removal of icons (Thomas Jefferson), etc. etc. Its all the same techniques. Conservatives simply ignore it when their peers do it, so you don't get to see those issues come up in conservative circles / conservative bubbles.
  - dlemire 5y ago
    The original claim was "the overwhelming majority of pressure to cancel books and academics is directed at the left by the right, regardless of what gets column inches and think-pieces." Many would say that the overwhelming majority of the academy is left of center. This makes it intuitive that if there is censorship of academics, then the recipients of the censorship would be people left of center. But I do not think it follows that the censors are on the right. I argue that most of the censorship on campus, be it people being uninvited or forced to resigned, comes from the academy itself. It is true that, quite possibly, the vast majority of the people being censored are on the left, but I think it is also true that the vast majority of the people censoring are also on the left. The right simply occupies very little room in the academy. It mostly exists outside of the academy. This is not to say that people on the right (mostly from outside of the academy) do not come in with censorious intentions... but my impression is that most universities are very well protected against external interventions. It is simply not the case that a business leader or a radio show host can easily censor a professor on campus. So if we are thinking about, say, college professors, I would say that we are mostly dealing with a left-left censorship. That is, the left is not this uniform block. Kathleen Stock is a leftist: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-59084446 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-59084446 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Stock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Stock Bret Weinstein is a leftist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Weinstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Weinstein Verushka Lieutenant-Duval is a leftist: https://arts.uottawa.ca/visualarts/people/lieutenant-duval-verushka https://arts.uottawa.ca/visualarts/people/lieutenant-duval-v... The people doing the cancelling were on the left.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

Can we say that it's bad, no matter which side does it? And that both sides are doing it in different ways, and that's bad?

amusedcyclist 5y ago

Has any professor gotten fired for their views ? The worst thats happened is some people getting disinvited from conferences, hardly seems like censorship, just editorial disagreement

oh_sigh 5y ago
Is firing the only way to get cancelled? What about being suspended? Being strong armed into "volunteering" into stepping back from teaching/speaking roles? Having career-advancing opportunities pass you by "for some reason"? Never getting a job in the first place because of your reputation?
- amusedcyclist 5y ago
  Can you provide some examples of these happening ? Or even better some statistics ?
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    I'm not really keeping track, but I can immediately recall the professor who spoke about a chinese filler word, the chinese native music professor who showed his class a critically acclaimed film starring Laurence Olivier...

RickJWagner 5y ago

The books I have seen would never have been allowed in past years. I saw an article this week about an NPR show featuring a book that was 'cancelled' from school libraries. NPR neglected to show the most egregeous illustrations, which included explicit sex scenes. We can't move the goalposts. Some books deserve to be kept out of reach of kids. These are the types I have seen in discussions. Nobody's on the right is trying to cancel anything that would've been acceptable in 2000.