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I feel profound empathy here. Having been on both sides of this situation, it’s just really complicated. You can forgive a person but really once you’ve seen th

I feel profound empathy here. Having been on both sides of this situation, it’s just really complicated. You can forgive a person but really once you’ve seen them in manic psychosis you will never fully trust them or their judgment ever again. There are a lot of contradictory emotions at work and they’re all valid. It’s kind of a shit lot in life, but you get good at making new friends. Eventually you can get it under control enough to build a life that works. But it’s a messy process to get there.

deft 5y ago
All true, but the problem seems to be people who don't know him are screwing him over and preventing him from making new friends so to speak.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  Yeah, I’m really glad I wasn’t a public figure when I was going through that. But his career as a public figure is likely over due to the trust issue. It sucks, but sometimes you can’t be anything you want.
pasabagi 5y ago
I don't know if this is true. I've had a couple of friends go through manic episodes, and while I very much did not enjoy it, there's a world of difference between them in normal-mode, and manic-mode, and I don't think I trust them less as a result. Maybe it would be different if violence was involved - but I don't think that's very common.
- LeifCarrotson 5y ago
  The critical thing is that you're aware that your friend in normal-mode will do different things than your friend in manic-mode. The default assumption is that people have various levels of predictability and trustworthiness in normal mode; learning that someone made a terrible choice once means that their morality and wisdom is not what you thought it was, or at least the variance is extremely high. People with bipolar disorders are essentially two very different people. You'd be foolish to trust someone in the middle of a manic episode, but and they can be great friends and very trustworthy when in normal-mode. The problem is that you have to know which mode they're operating in.
  - pasabagi 5y ago
    I think the first time around, mania kind of creeped in - everybody got sort of frog-boiled by a set of progressively more weird ideas and behaviours that all built up on eachother so it wasn't totally obvious that it was all nuts, until it got really extreme. Now, though, I like to think I'd see it coming a mile off. In general, I think trust is the wrong rubric for living with humans. It's better to have faith. In reality, people make horrible decisions and do monstrous things all the time, especially neurotypical people, and if you can only trust people who will not make terrible choices, you should trust no-one. History proves that the vast majority of people, in the right circumstances, will do astonishing and awful things. It makes more sense to treat it as a moral good in and of itself to trust other people, no matter if they let you down or not. That's the key insight of having faith in the people around you. Maybe they will let you down, maybe they won't, but suffering for an overabundance of faith is a worthwhile kind of suffering.
spadros 5y ago
Bipolar is a tragic disease. It's something that's pretty rampant in my family. You eventually get to a point that the author is. You can't excuse your behavior, but you want people to know desperately that those actions aren't the normal you. There's an acceptance that people will cut you off from their lives, and that's fair. Hurts but its the way it is.
- rhizome 5y ago
  Freddie doesn't have to be a public figure. He could become a web developer and go by his middle name and quietly cruise out the rest of his years like the drummer for Flock of Seagulls or something.
  - Veen 5y ago
    He could, but it would be a shame. He's an excellent writer. I am well to his right politically, but I've followed him for years because I enjoy reading his work and find his analysis a valuable counterpoint to stuff I would more normally read.

deft 5y ago

All true, but the problem seems to be people who don't know him are screwing him over and preventing him from making new friends so to speak.

wayoutthere 5y ago
Yeah, I’m really glad I wasn’t a public figure when I was going through that. But his career as a public figure is likely over due to the trust issue. It sucks, but sometimes you can’t be anything you want.

pasabagi 5y ago

I don't know if this is true. I've had a couple of friends go through manic episodes, and while I very much did not enjoy it, there's a world of difference between them in normal-mode, and manic-mode, and I don't think I trust them less as a result. Maybe it would be different if violence was involved - but I don't think that's very common.

LeifCarrotson 5y ago
The critical thing is that you're aware that your friend in normal-mode will do different things than your friend in manic-mode. The default assumption is that people have various levels of predictability and trustworthiness in normal mode; learning that someone made a terrible choice once means that their morality and wisdom is not what you thought it was, or at least the variance is extremely high. People with bipolar disorders are essentially two very different people. You'd be foolish to trust someone in the middle of a manic episode, but and they can be great friends and very trustworthy when in normal-mode. The problem is that you have to know which mode they're operating in.
- pasabagi 5y ago
  I think the first time around, mania kind of creeped in - everybody got sort of frog-boiled by a set of progressively more weird ideas and behaviours that all built up on eachother so it wasn't totally obvious that it was all nuts, until it got really extreme. Now, though, I like to think I'd see it coming a mile off. In general, I think trust is the wrong rubric for living with humans. It's better to have faith. In reality, people make horrible decisions and do monstrous things all the time, especially neurotypical people, and if you can only trust people who will not make terrible choices, you should trust no-one. History proves that the vast majority of people, in the right circumstances, will do astonishing and awful things. It makes more sense to treat it as a moral good in and of itself to trust other people, no matter if they let you down or not. That's the key insight of having faith in the people around you. Maybe they will let you down, maybe they won't, but suffering for an overabundance of faith is a worthwhile kind of suffering.

spadros 5y ago

Bipolar is a tragic disease. It's something that's pretty rampant in my family. You eventually get to a point that the author is. You can't excuse your behavior, but you want people to know desperately that those actions aren't the normal you. There's an acceptance that people will cut you off from their lives, and that's fair. Hurts but its the way it is.

rhizome 5y ago
Freddie doesn't have to be a public figure. He could become a web developer and go by his middle name and quietly cruise out the rest of his years like the drummer for Flock of Seagulls or something.
- Veen 5y ago
  He could, but it would be a shame. He's an excellent writer. I am well to his right politically, but I've followed him for years because I enjoy reading his work and find his analysis a valuable counterpoint to stuff I would more normally read.