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"Quick quiz: can your entire sales staff be replaced by a nicely formatted HTML table? If the answer is 'yes', then you are subtracting value and wasting my tim

by ethank 15y ago

"Quick quiz: can your entire sales staff be replaced by a nicely formatted HTML table? If the answer is 'yes', then you are subtracting value and wasting my time." My god that is good. I spent two weeks about three years ago going around the country looking at data centers to move our systems to (30+ servers that were currently in a co-lo and we were looking to go to managed/leased). We'd get pricing estimates that changed by the time of day and who emailed it to us. The shopping process made the migration seem easy.

pmcginn 15y ago
Why do people think a spreadsheet is less likely to rip them off than a person? I mean, sure, if you want to, feel free to walk into a car dealership and pay sticker price. Go to the mall and buy that hardcover book at MSRP.
- Goladus 15y ago
  You can always try to negotiate the sticker price if you want. Even if there's no sales staff there's someone who should have the authority to offer you a discount, though in a market like shared hosting that's probably not going to happen much.
  - zer0point 15y ago
    I agree, this depends so much on what type of hosting you are looking for. When it comes to shared and VPSes, HTML table is way to go. But when it comes to moving servers worth of $500000 to your datacenter, then I really expect that the company has some employees who I can talk to and negotiate the price.
- drivingmenuts 15y ago
  Because a spreadsheet won't waste 10 minutes of my life talking about football, etc. before showing me a price. I'll buy a car from one of those no-haggle car dealerships. Yes, they're probably padding it out, but it's worth it not to have to chit-chat.
  - praptak 15y ago
    "I'll buy a car from one of those no-haggle car dealerships. Yes, they're probably padding it out, but it's worth it not to have to chit-chat." This, or take a page from an economy handbook and set up the game so that it works to your advantage (hint: if you're physically at a dealer before the negotiation starts, then you've already lost.) Decide the exact model you need an email a dozen dealers for a quote.
- ethank 15y ago
  A spreadsheet doesn't waste time in the negotiation dance. I'll gladly pay for convenience and directness, which I do frequently. Think of it this way, given the choice between paying X for a service, or having to "Call for pricing..." which will you do? Personally I'd take the X option even if it cost more.
  - wisty 15y ago
    And that doesn't mean you can't still call for a better deal. The sticker price should at least help you scope out whether your project is feasible on their system.
- simonw 15y ago
  A spreadsheet doesn't earn a bonus.
joshu 15y ago
seriously. i like to buy parts for things online and i am infuriated when there is a "call us" for what is ultimately a $37 part or whatever.
- ethank 15y ago
  It's like a time/money offset: waste mine to justify that you get paid for yours.
- joelhaasnoot 15y ago
  My rule of thumb is that if they don't put the price out there, either they're too expensive, or they aren't worth buying from
  - dkersten 15y ago
    agreed. When I am looking for something, I want to make up a quick list of providers with a rough idea of what they offer and for how much. After I've got my list, I'll happily call them for more details and pricing options, but unless I can have a rough idea beforehand, I'm never going to call them.
dcposch 15y ago
Couldn't agree more. For inspiration, see SpaceX's pricing page (tldr; $54M for a rocket to low earth orbit) http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php#pricing_and_performance http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php#pricing_and_performance Lesser companies are shy about pricing for two reasons: * They simply can't compete on a cost/benefit basis * They want to capture "consumer surplus" (see Joel's awesome writeup, http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckie...) "Capturing consumer surplus" is an MBA euphimism for "charging different people different amounts for the same product, based on whatever we can get away with". Sales dweebs love it because it makes for smart-looking powerpoints at the end of the month (look, we charged these forty customers double! free money!) What they can't measure is how many saw the "call us" button on the website and weren't gullible enough for that shit. Those people simply left to find a competitor with more transparent pricing.

by ethank 15y ago

pmcginn 15y ago

Why do people think a spreadsheet is less likely to rip them off than a person? I mean, sure, if you want to, feel free to walk into a car dealership and pay sticker price. Go to the mall and buy that hardcover book at MSRP.

Goladus 15y ago
You can always try to negotiate the sticker price if you want. Even if there's no sales staff there's someone who should have the authority to offer you a discount, though in a market like shared hosting that's probably not going to happen much.
- zer0point 15y ago
  I agree, this depends so much on what type of hosting you are looking for. When it comes to shared and VPSes, HTML table is way to go. But when it comes to moving servers worth of $500000 to your datacenter, then I really expect that the company has some employees who I can talk to and negotiate the price.
drivingmenuts 15y ago
Because a spreadsheet won't waste 10 minutes of my life talking about football, etc. before showing me a price. I'll buy a car from one of those no-haggle car dealerships. Yes, they're probably padding it out, but it's worth it not to have to chit-chat.
- praptak 15y ago
  "I'll buy a car from one of those no-haggle car dealerships. Yes, they're probably padding it out, but it's worth it not to have to chit-chat." This, or take a page from an economy handbook and set up the game so that it works to your advantage (hint: if you're physically at a dealer before the negotiation starts, then you've already lost.) Decide the exact model you need an email a dozen dealers for a quote.
ethank 15y ago
A spreadsheet doesn't waste time in the negotiation dance. I'll gladly pay for convenience and directness, which I do frequently. Think of it this way, given the choice between paying X for a service, or having to "Call for pricing..." which will you do? Personally I'd take the X option even if it cost more.
- wisty 15y ago
  And that doesn't mean you can't still call for a better deal. The sticker price should at least help you scope out whether your project is feasible on their system.
simonw 15y ago
A spreadsheet doesn't earn a bonus.

joshu 15y ago

seriously. i like to buy parts for things online and i am infuriated when there is a "call us" for what is ultimately a $37 part or whatever.

ethank 15y ago
It's like a time/money offset: waste mine to justify that you get paid for yours.
joelhaasnoot 15y ago
My rule of thumb is that if they don't put the price out there, either they're too expensive, or they aren't worth buying from
- dkersten 15y ago
  agreed. When I am looking for something, I want to make up a quick list of providers with a rough idea of what they offer and for how much. After I've got my list, I'll happily call them for more details and pricing options, but unless I can have a rough idea beforehand, I'm never going to call them.

dcposch 15y ago

Couldn't agree more. For inspiration, see SpaceX's pricing page (tldr; $54M for a rocket to low earth orbit) http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php#pricing_and_performance http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php#pricing_and_performance Lesser companies are shy about pricing for two reasons: * They simply can't compete on a cost/benefit basis * They want to capture "consumer surplus" (see Joel's awesome writeup, http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckie...) "Capturing consumer surplus" is an MBA euphimism for "charging different people different amounts for the same product, based on whatever we can get away with". Sales dweebs love it because it makes for smart-looking powerpoints at the end of the month (look, we charged these forty customers double! free money!) What they can't measure is how many saw the "call us" button on the website and weren't gullible enough for that shit. Those people simply left to find a competitor with more transparent pricing.