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> Millions of people raise families on 40k/year in the United States. These are your fellow citizens. Perhaps you can ask them how they do it and whether they a

> Millions of people raise families on 40k/year in the United States. These are your fellow citizens. Perhaps you can ask them how they do it and whether they are "satisfied" with that level of income and lifestyle. I have. They are not satisfied. $40k Taxes - $5000/year. Monthly budget: $35k/12 = ~$2900/month Rent - $1200 Utilities (incl. tv + internet + phone + gas + elec) - $300 Car payment - $300 Car insurance - $90 Food - $300 Gas - $80 Health insurance - $500 Oops we're already at $2770. Hope you don't need your tires changed or have kids. Maybe you can just go without health insurance for a while. After all, having health insurance is really just the result of lifestyle inflation. What about laundry? You have a free in-unit machine? Otherwise that's like $40/mon. You also better not have any other loans. Fell behind during Covid and took on CC debit? Good luck paying that off for 10 years. Went to school? Hope Biden cancels some of your debt, because that's the only way you're paying that off. Also, Trump era tax changes mean you now have surprise tax bills every year because less is being taken out of your paycheck. Now you have $80 in fees and counting on top of the tax bill that you still owe. I'm not making any of that up. That's real. Why don't you talk to people instead of pretending like $40k is enough to be "satisfied"?

icedchai 5y ago
$40K was the starting salary for new college grads, just out of school... 25 years ago. To think anyone with real expenses, like raising a family, would be "satisfied" with this is simply not believable.
BeetleB 5y ago
Not going to argue with the larger point you're making, but to nitpick: > Car payment - $300 Is way too high. I know it's "common", but it's also entirely unnecessary to pay that much. If I add up the cost of owning a car (purchase price + maintenance, but not gas), it has never been that high for any of the cars I've owned in the last 20 years. Not even close. Buy old reliable cars. Even if one of them ends up being a bad deal you'll easily average out to less than $300/mo. > Health insurance - $500 If your income is $40K/year, you'll pay less than that (if you're single). > Rent - $1200 Assumption would be that you've paid for the place. Otherwise, this number is highly variable. > Taxes - $5000/year. I doubt it. Will highly depend on the state. You have various deductions, etc that will bring your MAGI down quite significantly. I lived on the equivalent of today's $32K/year for many years very comfortably. Had hobbies, bought pricey electronics, and traveled cross country often - always staying at motels (so not camping or sleeping in the car). > I'm not making any of that up. That's real. Why don't you talk to people instead of pretending like $40k is enough to be "satisfied"? As noted above, I lived on less for years. I didn't even try to be frugal. I won't claim everyone will have it as easy as me, but I can assure you that I was not an extreme outlier. I hung around those with similar income, and their experiences matched mine.

icedchai 5y ago

$40K was the starting salary for new college grads, just out of school... 25 years ago. To think anyone with real expenses, like raising a family, would be "satisfied" with this is simply not believable.

BeetleB 5y ago

Not going to argue with the larger point you're making, but to nitpick: > Car payment - $300 Is way too high. I know it's "common", but it's also entirely unnecessary to pay that much. If I add up the cost of owning a car (purchase price + maintenance, but not gas), it has never been that high for any of the cars I've owned in the last 20 years. Not even close. Buy old reliable cars. Even if one of them ends up being a bad deal you'll easily average out to less than $300/mo. > Health insurance - $500 If your income is $40K/year, you'll pay less than that (if you're single). > Rent - $1200 Assumption would be that you've paid for the place. Otherwise, this number is highly variable. > Taxes - $5000/year. I doubt it. Will highly depend on the state. You have various deductions, etc that will bring your MAGI down quite significantly. I lived on the equivalent of today's $32K/year for many years very comfortably. Had hobbies, bought pricey electronics, and traveled cross country often - always staying at motels (so not camping or sleeping in the car). > I'm not making any of that up. That's real. Why don't you talk to people instead of pretending like $40k is enough to be "satisfied"? As noted above, I lived on less for years. I didn't even try to be frugal. I won't claim everyone will have it as easy as me, but I can assure you that I was not an extreme outlier. I hung around those with similar income, and their experiences matched mine.