4 ms·

What are those expensive hobbies and luxuries? My hobbies cost about zero (making music, doing the occasional woodworking, reading, walking). Travel can be exp

by bambax 5y ago

What are those expensive hobbies and luxuries? My hobbies cost about zero (making music, doing the occasional woodworking, reading, walking). Travel can be expensive but it can also be quite cheap and is very dispensable. Luxuries outside of travel (expensive hotels), I don't even know what they are. I'm sure it's not hard to spend as much money as you want on many different things; but you make it sound as if it was necessary. It really isn't.

ghaff 5y ago
There are many moderately expensive hobbies that are pretty mainstream: downhill skiing, scuba diving, even "cheap" activities like hiking that involve travel to many places where you can do those activities. And many others buy equipment for their hobbies that they don't strictly need but they get pleasure from. Eating at decent restaurants on a regular basis adds up as do theater tickets. Even just having work done on a house rather than doing most of it yourself. Very little of this is strictly necessary but many people do spend money on this sort of thing without conspicuous consumption being involved. Mostly paying only for what you have to pay for is pretty much the definition of a very frugal lifestyle.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  Not saying this as a personal attack but your comment comes off as incredibly out of touch. Downhill skiing and scuba diving may be somewhat mainstream compared to something like lounging on a private island, but they're not that common. Most Americans probably go their whole lives without ever skiing or scuba diving. And to posit these as regular, everyday activities is also unrealistic. Scuba diving or skiing are things that require travel and buying or renting gear, if not paying for training as well. That's not a 'hobby' for most people, it's equivalent to a big luxury like going on vacation.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Those were just 2 things I do/did at various times that popped into my head (and they're probably not the best examples). Or pick hunting, fishing, golf, tennis, or even driving somewhere regularly on weekends to camp or hike. None of these are necessities but quite a few people do them semi-regularly and while some of these activities can be cheaper than others, they have costs--and, to the point I was perhaps poorly making, they're activities that a lot of people would hate to give up in the interest of frugality. Of course, many things can also be done on a relative shoestring so long as they don't involve long distance travel/hotels. On the other hand, a lot of people like spending money on their hobbies, even if not strictly required.
NDizzle 5y ago
WOODWORKING costs $0?!?!?! What??? How much have you spent on tools? Do you smoke a pipe and whittle on the front porch or something? You don't visit Rockler and buy tons of gear? Where do you get your wood, as that's not free either...
- bambax 5y ago
  I bought tools 15 years ago and I don't use them that often, so they don't wear much, and never break. So now it's mostly free. Wood is quite cheap depending on what you do (and I'm not Nick Offerman). Most projects cost less than €100-200 in materials and take 3 months, so that's around €50 per month on average. Not "free", technically, but not far from free.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    Are you doing it all by hand…? Why does it take 3 months? Are you buying huge logs and then using a carving knife for the entire project???? I could easily spend much more on wood for a weekend project. I cannot certainly fathom only $50/month for woodworking unless your hobby was exclusively turning small bowls and you loved waiting months for bowls to dry out.
fooker 5y ago
Photography can be somewhat expensive.
- bambax 5y ago
  I do a lot of photography. Photography can be extremely cheap. Current gear is of incredibly high quality; a camera can stay relevant for over 10 years and lenses, forever. If you buy a camera for about $1000 every 5 years that's $200/year, less than $20/month. And you can certainly buy cameras less often than that. Then storage, software costs, while not exactly zero, are negligible. Printing can be expensive if done well. But I've found, nobody cares about prints (except maybe the photographer).
edanm 5y ago
Having kids, while not a hobby, can certainly be expensive, and is probably the most obvious missing consideration here. It also makes a lot of other things less flexible, which tends to cost more money. (Want to go to a movie at night? Now there's a babysitter involved). Kids aside, lots of things cost money. You like eating at nice restaurants? Money. Prefer to home cook nice meals? Great, equipment costs, therefore money. (And maybe ingredients). Want to work out? Gym subscription or trainer = money. Buying your own home equipment = money. Want some form of cardio? Biking = buying a bike. Etc. Nice clothes cost money. A nice TV costs money. Nice tech gear costs money. Etc. And of course, travel costs a lot of money, depending on where you live. There are obviously lots of other examples and hobbies. None of these are necessary. You can choose to be frugal with all of them, absolutely. But - that's parent's point. Most people earning a relatively nice salary will naturally spend more money on nice stuff. That's partly because of natural tendencies to "use up" what we have, partly because of trying to be like other people, etc. But it's also partly because spending more money gives you nicer stuff / experiences, and people like them. And if you have the money, why not? There are reasons, but parent is right - you have to consciously choose to be different than normal and not spend money the way other people do when they can.
- bambax 5y ago
  Equipment costs are not exactly costs. They are investments that can be amortized over many years. Cooking utensils are not free but they last a lifetime, sometimes longer. I have pans and pots from my grandmother; and old gear is often better than new gear. If one has money then spending it is good, of course. The question is, what are we willing to give up to get more money, and for what. I would argue time is infinitely more precious than money, above a threshold -- but the threshold is very low.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Equipment costs are not exactly costs. Yes, they are. > They are investments that can be amortized over many years. So, they are capex rather than opex costs. > I would argue time is infinitely more precious than money, Were that true, the market clearing price of people's time denominated in money would be infinite. Which would be inconvenient, since largely money exists to enable the indirect exchange of time for time (largely, as labor).

by bambax 5y ago

ghaff 5y ago

There are many moderately expensive hobbies that are pretty mainstream: downhill skiing, scuba diving, even "cheap" activities like hiking that involve travel to many places where you can do those activities. And many others buy equipment for their hobbies that they don't strictly need but they get pleasure from. Eating at decent restaurants on a regular basis adds up as do theater tickets. Even just having work done on a house rather than doing most of it yourself. Very little of this is strictly necessary but many people do spend money on this sort of thing without conspicuous consumption being involved. Mostly paying only for what you have to pay for is pretty much the definition of a very frugal lifestyle.

silicon2401 5y ago
Not saying this as a personal attack but your comment comes off as incredibly out of touch. Downhill skiing and scuba diving may be somewhat mainstream compared to something like lounging on a private island, but they're not that common. Most Americans probably go their whole lives without ever skiing or scuba diving. And to posit these as regular, everyday activities is also unrealistic. Scuba diving or skiing are things that require travel and buying or renting gear, if not paying for training as well. That's not a 'hobby' for most people, it's equivalent to a big luxury like going on vacation.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Those were just 2 things I do/did at various times that popped into my head (and they're probably not the best examples). Or pick hunting, fishing, golf, tennis, or even driving somewhere regularly on weekends to camp or hike. None of these are necessities but quite a few people do them semi-regularly and while some of these activities can be cheaper than others, they have costs--and, to the point I was perhaps poorly making, they're activities that a lot of people would hate to give up in the interest of frugality. Of course, many things can also be done on a relative shoestring so long as they don't involve long distance travel/hotels. On the other hand, a lot of people like spending money on their hobbies, even if not strictly required.

NDizzle 5y ago

WOODWORKING costs $0?!?!?! What??? How much have you spent on tools? Do you smoke a pipe and whittle on the front porch or something? You don't visit Rockler and buy tons of gear? Where do you get your wood, as that's not free either...

bambax 5y ago
I bought tools 15 years ago and I don't use them that often, so they don't wear much, and never break. So now it's mostly free. Wood is quite cheap depending on what you do (and I'm not Nick Offerman). Most projects cost less than €100-200 in materials and take 3 months, so that's around €50 per month on average. Not "free", technically, but not far from free.
- bradlys 5y ago
  Are you doing it all by hand…? Why does it take 3 months? Are you buying huge logs and then using a carving knife for the entire project???? I could easily spend much more on wood for a weekend project. I cannot certainly fathom only $50/month for woodworking unless your hobby was exclusively turning small bowls and you loved waiting months for bowls to dry out.

fooker 5y ago

Photography can be somewhat expensive.

bambax 5y ago
I do a lot of photography. Photography can be extremely cheap. Current gear is of incredibly high quality; a camera can stay relevant for over 10 years and lenses, forever. If you buy a camera for about $1000 every 5 years that's $200/year, less than $20/month. And you can certainly buy cameras less often than that. Then storage, software costs, while not exactly zero, are negligible. Printing can be expensive if done well. But I've found, nobody cares about prints (except maybe the photographer).

edanm 5y ago

Having kids, while not a hobby, can certainly be expensive, and is probably the most obvious missing consideration here. It also makes a lot of other things less flexible, which tends to cost more money. (Want to go to a movie at night? Now there's a babysitter involved). Kids aside, lots of things cost money. You like eating at nice restaurants? Money. Prefer to home cook nice meals? Great, equipment costs, therefore money. (And maybe ingredients). Want to work out? Gym subscription or trainer = money. Buying your own home equipment = money. Want some form of cardio? Biking = buying a bike. Etc. Nice clothes cost money. A nice TV costs money. Nice tech gear costs money. Etc. And of course, travel costs a lot of money, depending on where you live. There are obviously lots of other examples and hobbies. None of these are necessary. You can choose to be frugal with all of them, absolutely. But - that's parent's point. Most people earning a relatively nice salary will naturally spend more money on nice stuff. That's partly because of natural tendencies to "use up" what we have, partly because of trying to be like other people, etc. But it's also partly because spending more money gives you nicer stuff / experiences, and people like them. And if you have the money, why not? There are reasons, but parent is right - you have to consciously choose to be different than normal and not spend money the way other people do when they can.

bambax 5y ago
Equipment costs are not exactly costs. They are investments that can be amortized over many years. Cooking utensils are not free but they last a lifetime, sometimes longer. I have pans and pots from my grandmother; and old gear is often better than new gear. If one has money then spending it is good, of course. The question is, what are we willing to give up to get more money, and for what. I would argue time is infinitely more precious than money, above a threshold -- but the threshold is very low.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Equipment costs are not exactly costs. Yes, they are. > They are investments that can be amortized over many years. So, they are capex rather than opex costs. > I would argue time is infinitely more precious than money, Were that true, the market clearing price of people's time denominated in money would be infinite. Which would be inconvenient, since largely money exists to enable the indirect exchange of time for time (largely, as labor).