4 ms·

I've never really understood why more of this kind of thing isn't optional in the _client_ to start with. There's this weird "I'll control everything" default

by seany 5y ago

I've never really understood why more of this kind of thing isn't optional in the _client_ to start with. There's this weird "I'll control everything" default with some of these projects thats just baffling; given the seeming point of distributed/federated systems.

rakoo 5y ago
Interestingly that's how Aether (https://getaether.net/ https://getaether.net/) works: mods don't control rooms unilaterally, they are voted in. If you don't agree with what a mod did, you can disregard whatever action they took. _All_ content is available locally, you only apply the filter you want. I've never used Aether but I find that way of working very refreshing.
ruined 5y ago
it was a shortcut to cull the lowest effort 4chan-style spam until moderation tools were implemented. the functionality is still there, in fact it's more configurable now they did it because social media can't get off the ground if it's full of useless garbage. would you read hn if all the comments were just the same word over and over?
- esyir 5y ago
  Eh, from what I know, it was very much ideological, at least that's what I heard from people I knew working with it. To quote the dev on this himself: >And putting it in a DB table means someone could very easily remove it by deleting every row of that table, which isn't good. I want to make it very difficult for racist trolls to use the most updated version of Lemmy.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    [flagged]
    - true_religion 5y ago
      I don’t think so. It’s hard to believe someone becomes racists merely from hearing that racism is banned. The issue of hating billions of people is too serious to develop as a form of devil’s advocacy. As for the issue of identity politics, I think that’s another discussion entirely.
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        > It’s hard to believe someone becomes racists merely from hearing that racism is banned. Narrowly, I agree, but we all know that there's a lot of ideological baggage associated with "racism" as a term and specifically how it's brandied about and by whom. At this point, how you talk about racism signals a side in a culture war in which "both sides" are illiberal--and of course the inconvenient liberal center whose existence threatens both sides' dichotomous narratives ("yeah we're illiberal, but those guys are even more illiberal"). > The issue of hating billions of people is too serious to develop as a form of devil’s advocacy. Not in America where racism is incessantly used as a political football by the left and the right (for example, left wing Twitter has been doing its best to racialize the Rittenhouse saga despite that all parties were white; similarly right). > As for the issue of identity politics, I think that’s another discussion entirely. As previously mentioned, it's deeply intertwined with how we talk about "racism".
- andrewzah 5y ago
  I don’t really think HN would have taken off if there were such heavy handed approaches to moderation in the first place. Further, I don’t believe a lack of this filter would result in “the same word over and over”. What? One of the things that makes F/OSS great is user freedom. Why would I want to use F/OSS from someone that had such “my way or the highway” opinions about subjective things like how to handle people using bad words? Edit: wording
  - agplisntfoss 5y ago
    Lemmy and Mastodon are AGPL-licensed, which means if you modify server side code this counts as "distribution" and you must publish the code for your service based on these projects. Agree or disagree about whether or not that's good, fine, and it is open source software, but it is not libre software. They're OSS, not F/OSS. Pleroma is MIT licensed.
  - jlkuester7 5y ago
    > One of the things that makes F/OSS great is user freedom. I don't think you are talking about the same kind of freedom. FLOSS freedom is the ability to view and edit the source code. Just because the source code does not do what you want does not mean you are not free to fork the project and change the behavior for yourself...
    - andrewzah 5y ago
      I would argue that just because the source code is available, that doesn't mean the project is in the spirit of free software or respects users. Imagine if curl just refused to download specific websites. Or if golang refused to compile code at all if it detected certain words in comments. Sure, yeah, these would be still free software given that the source code is available to edit to one's liking. But it's really not in the spirit of free software & user freedom to impose arbitrary things like this. The free software / open source landscape would be incredibly irritating to work with in general if this sort of hostile attitude to downstream users prevailed.

by seany 5y ago

rakoo 5y ago

Interestingly that's how Aether (https://getaether.net/ https://getaether.net/) works: mods don't control rooms unilaterally, they are voted in. If you don't agree with what a mod did, you can disregard whatever action they took. _All_ content is available locally, you only apply the filter you want. I've never used Aether but I find that way of working very refreshing.

ruined 5y ago

it was a shortcut to cull the lowest effort 4chan-style spam until moderation tools were implemented. the functionality is still there, in fact it's more configurable now they did it because social media can't get off the ground if it's full of useless garbage. would you read hn if all the comments were just the same word over and over?

esyir 5y ago
Eh, from what I know, it was very much ideological, at least that's what I heard from people I knew working with it. To quote the dev on this himself: >And putting it in a DB table means someone could very easily remove it by deleting every row of that table, which isn't good. I want to make it very difficult for racist trolls to use the most updated version of Lemmy.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - true_religion 5y ago
    I don’t think so. It’s hard to believe someone becomes racists merely from hearing that racism is banned. The issue of hating billions of people is too serious to develop as a form of devil’s advocacy. As for the issue of identity politics, I think that’s another discussion entirely.
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      > It’s hard to believe someone becomes racists merely from hearing that racism is banned. Narrowly, I agree, but we all know that there's a lot of ideological baggage associated with "racism" as a term and specifically how it's brandied about and by whom. At this point, how you talk about racism signals a side in a culture war in which "both sides" are illiberal--and of course the inconvenient liberal center whose existence threatens both sides' dichotomous narratives ("yeah we're illiberal, but those guys are even more illiberal"). > The issue of hating billions of people is too serious to develop as a form of devil’s advocacy. Not in America where racism is incessantly used as a political football by the left and the right (for example, left wing Twitter has been doing its best to racialize the Rittenhouse saga despite that all parties were white; similarly right). > As for the issue of identity politics, I think that’s another discussion entirely. As previously mentioned, it's deeply intertwined with how we talk about "racism".
andrewzah 5y ago
I don’t really think HN would have taken off if there were such heavy handed approaches to moderation in the first place. Further, I don’t believe a lack of this filter would result in “the same word over and over”. What? One of the things that makes F/OSS great is user freedom. Why would I want to use F/OSS from someone that had such “my way or the highway” opinions about subjective things like how to handle people using bad words? Edit: wording
- agplisntfoss 5y ago
  Lemmy and Mastodon are AGPL-licensed, which means if you modify server side code this counts as "distribution" and you must publish the code for your service based on these projects. Agree or disagree about whether or not that's good, fine, and it is open source software, but it is not libre software. They're OSS, not F/OSS. Pleroma is MIT licensed.
- jlkuester7 5y ago
  > One of the things that makes F/OSS great is user freedom. I don't think you are talking about the same kind of freedom. FLOSS freedom is the ability to view and edit the source code. Just because the source code does not do what you want does not mean you are not free to fork the project and change the behavior for yourself...
  - andrewzah 5y ago
    I would argue that just because the source code is available, that doesn't mean the project is in the spirit of free software or respects users. Imagine if curl just refused to download specific websites. Or if golang refused to compile code at all if it detected certain words in comments. Sure, yeah, these would be still free software given that the source code is available to edit to one's liking. But it's really not in the spirit of free software & user freedom to impose arbitrary things like this. The free software / open source landscape would be incredibly irritating to work with in general if this sort of hostile attitude to downstream users prevailed.