5 ms·

Free Apple Support

kop316 5y ago
For some context on this, it appears the author of the blog is also the author of curl/libcurl. For additional context, it appears that the issue was also specific to Apple, not an upstream issue, which it would have been nice if the blog added that for context. Context here: https://twitter.com/spotmac/status/1461254677966864384 https://twitter.com/spotmac/status/1461254677966864384
- happynacho 5y ago
  Thanks, I had no idea what was the rant about besides "cRaPpLe".
lucasyvas 5y ago
This will be controversial, but my preferred solution to this problem is to switch to GPL. In an ideal world, cURL would be able to expect some collaboration/support from downstream consumers like Apple, but wishing for this (or issuing valid complaints against their behaviour) is a waste of time. Make macOS useless by starting to strangle the core utilities with GPL and you might see their stance change.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  Not likely. They'll do the same thing just with whatever version last had a license they like probably making the problem worse. They happily shipped years old versions of things like bash and emacs to keep using GPL2 versions. It took like a decade before they replaced them with something else or just removed them entirely.
  - zingplex 5y ago
    In the case of cURL, there's a much greater amount of network exposure. It would be extremely irresponsible for Apple to simply ship an older version missing security patches.
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  This didn't work with Bash 4 (zsh is now the default shell), and Apple created in-house alternatives for OpenSSL (SecureTransport) and OpenGL (Metal), showing a degree of willingness to write replacements for impossibly-difficult subsystems that few others show. I would hazard a guess, based on that tendency, that attempting to pressure Apple through open-source licensing is more likely to cause Apple to replace open-source with closed-source, than it is to benefit open-source in any way whatsoever.
  - salamandersauce 5y ago
    They also made their own SMB client after SAMBA switched to GPL3. Forgot about that.
    - ohgodplsno 5y ago
      Sounds like a good plan. Switch as many possible tools and libraries to GPLv3. This forces Apple to either give in, or have to maintain a growing library of tools (costing them money), or do a one off rewrite and not maintain it, exposing their users to unmaintained software and showing off how much Apple simply cares about profit and not its users.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - floatingatoll 5y ago
        , or do a rewrite and make closed proprietary code a core/mandatory feature of their platform (SecureTransport, Metal). , or do a rewrite and make open code a core dependency for their platform (Clang).
        ohgodplsno 5y ago
        Nobody uses Metal, and every developer that has to implement it complains of how dogshit it is. Same goes for securetransport. The end result remains Apple hurting itself with their nonstandard, unmaintained APIs. Clang/LLVM hasn't been Apple led for a long time.
- elurg 5y ago
  How would switching to GPL affect support questions?
jaclaz 5y ago
Maybe it is just me, but besides the content of the message (which is terrible) I have to object to the form as well. Some minimal education/respect to the user is missing, WHY are you referring me to someone else on the internet? Even the usual corporate jargon or bogus explanation/excuse, like - say - "We are sorry but from our tests the behaviour you describe is not connected to our product, you may want to contacxt directly ..." The text in the message: "Please reach out to ..." could be - maybe - acceptable - if it was a reply forwarding to another division/office of Apple itself, i.e. you write to (hypothetical) support@apple.com and you get as reply "Thanks for contacting us. To get help with this issue, please reach to softwaresupport@apple.com." And it would still remain (IMHO) rude.
willcipriano 5y ago
A modest solution: if (strstr(SYSTEM_OS, "MacOS")) { if (randomNumber(1, 1000)) == 42) { // Contact Apple support if this is a issue char *s = "replacing this"; *s = "causes a segfault";} }

For some context on this, it appears the author of the blog is also the author of curl/libcurl. For additional context, it appears that the issue was also specific to Apple, not an upstream issue, which it would have been nice if the blog added that for context. Context here: https://twitter.com/spotmac/status/1461254677966864384 https://twitter.com/spotmac/status/1461254677966864384

happynacho 5y ago
Thanks, I had no idea what was the rant about besides "cRaPpLe".

lucasyvas 5y ago

This will be controversial, but my preferred solution to this problem is to switch to GPL. In an ideal world, cURL would be able to expect some collaboration/support from downstream consumers like Apple, but wishing for this (or issuing valid complaints against their behaviour) is a waste of time. Make macOS useless by starting to strangle the core utilities with GPL and you might see their stance change.

salamandersauce 5y ago
Not likely. They'll do the same thing just with whatever version last had a license they like probably making the problem worse. They happily shipped years old versions of things like bash and emacs to keep using GPL2 versions. It took like a decade before they replaced them with something else or just removed them entirely.
- zingplex 5y ago
  In the case of cURL, there's a much greater amount of network exposure. It would be extremely irresponsible for Apple to simply ship an older version missing security patches.
floatingatoll 5y ago
This didn't work with Bash 4 (zsh is now the default shell), and Apple created in-house alternatives for OpenSSL (SecureTransport) and OpenGL (Metal), showing a degree of willingness to write replacements for impossibly-difficult subsystems that few others show. I would hazard a guess, based on that tendency, that attempting to pressure Apple through open-source licensing is more likely to cause Apple to replace open-source with closed-source, than it is to benefit open-source in any way whatsoever.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  They also made their own SMB client after SAMBA switched to GPL3. Forgot about that.
  - ohgodplsno 5y ago
    Sounds like a good plan. Switch as many possible tools and libraries to GPLv3. This forces Apple to either give in, or have to maintain a growing library of tools (costing them money), or do a one off rewrite and not maintain it, exposing their users to unmaintained software and showing off how much Apple simply cares about profit and not its users.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - floatingatoll 5y ago
      , or do a rewrite and make closed proprietary code a core/mandatory feature of their platform (SecureTransport, Metal). , or do a rewrite and make open code a core dependency for their platform (Clang).
      - ohgodplsno 5y ago
        Nobody uses Metal, and every developer that has to implement it complains of how dogshit it is. Same goes for securetransport. The end result remains Apple hurting itself with their nonstandard, unmaintained APIs. Clang/LLVM hasn't been Apple led for a long time.
elurg 5y ago
How would switching to GPL affect support questions?

jaclaz 5y ago

Maybe it is just me, but besides the content of the message (which is terrible) I have to object to the form as well. Some minimal education/respect to the user is missing, WHY are you referring me to someone else on the internet? Even the usual corporate jargon or bogus explanation/excuse, like - say - "We are sorry but from our tests the behaviour you describe is not connected to our product, you may want to contacxt directly ..." The text in the message: "Please reach out to ..." could be - maybe - acceptable - if it was a reply forwarding to another division/office of Apple itself, i.e. you write to (hypothetical) support@apple.com and you get as reply "Thanks for contacting us. To get help with this issue, please reach to softwaresupport@apple.com." And it would still remain (IMHO) rude.

willcipriano 5y ago

A modest solution: if (strstr(SYSTEM_OS, "MacOS")) { if (randomNumber(1, 1000)) == 42) { // Contact Apple support if this is a issue char *s = "replacing this"; *s = "causes a segfault";} }