5 ms·

I hate this. We are trying to look at the worst of someone that did so much for the world. People on HN are trying to cancel Feynman as well. I have nothing bu

I hate this. We are trying to look at the worst of someone that did so much for the world. People on HN are trying to cancel Feynman as well. I have nothing but feelings of disdain for you. Even if they did something wrong, I’d rather focus on their positive sides. Please stop this onslaught of taking down the history for some axe to grind.

metalliqaz 5y ago
Feynman??? wtf
- eyeundersand 5y ago
  Surely you're joking... (sorry, couldn't resist) I'm out of the loop on this one too. Anyone care to explain?
  - BizarroLand 5y ago
    Apparently he was a highly sexualized person and he partook in debauchery, got grabby with women in general and took advantage of naive science groupies when the opportunity presented itself and other things that are probably worse than that. https://galileospendulum.org/2014/07/13/the-problem-of-richard-feynman/ https://galileospendulum.org/2014/07/13/the-problem-of-richa...
  - jandrese 5y ago
    If you read his autobiography he includes a fair bit of Red Pill style advice to the reader. Stuff like how to neg women to get them to sleep with you. He also includes anecdotes about how he was the least sexist guy in the room on other occasions. This is the danger of filtering past culture through a modern lens.
    - eyeundersand 5y ago
      Ha! I'm in the middle of reading it. was might be more suitable seeing as I haven't touched it in about two months now but that's how I like doing it (3-4 in parallel). Just went back to check, and found out I left it at Part 4, with his involvement in the military having recently started. Don't recall anything particularly improper as regards the allegations(facts?, I'm not sure) but it's probably coming up. Thanks for letting me know!
tubby12345 5y ago
Maybe some people are tired of sycophantic hero worship (in science and elsewhere). >We are trying to look at the worst of someone that did so much for the world. Have you ever considered that maybe hagiography is a disservice to these people? I know that if I were to do something extraordinary, I would be ashamed if other people used it as a smokescreen for my shortcomings.
beaconstudios 5y ago
trying to get a balanced perspective on people who did a lot for the world is not cancel culture. Winston Churchill saved Britain from the Nazis, but he was also pretty racist. That doesn't reduce the meaning of his positive accomplishments, but it does give his character more dimensionality.
- esfandia 5y ago
  I don't have data to back this up, but it seems to me most people were racist back then and there, but most people didn't save Britain from the Nazis, so from a PCA perspective one dimension is more significant than the other.
  - goto11 5y ago
    Churchill's legacy is more complex that just "he had racist viewpoints, but everybody had that back then." He was an imperialist who believed in Britains right to conquer and rule inferior people around the world. He was bitterly opposed to dismantling the Empire. Even after WWII, he was responsible the the horrifically brutal suppression of the rebellious Mau Mau in Kenya, which included the use of concentration camps. Yes, this happend after the Nürnberg trials. So while he is rightfully remembered as a hero for opposing the Nazis when few others did, he also did much of the same the Nazis did, just far from Europe and against non-white people.
creata 5y ago
> People on HN are trying to cancel Feynman as well. What does the word "cancel" mean to you? Feynman can't be deplatformed since he's dead, and no one can deny his fundamental contributions to physics. > Please stop this onslaught of taking down the history for some axe to grind. You know, if someone told me to stop saying something about a historical figure because they'd "rather focus on their positive sides", I might call that "taking down the history".
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  > You know, if someone told me to stop saying something about a historical figure because they'd "rather focus on their positive sides" This is the most fragile strawman I've seen in a while. That's not what I said at all. I did not say we should stop talking about bad parts of the history. That would be literally be a totalitarian state.
  - Kranar 5y ago
    How else would you interpret this sentence? "Please stop this onslaught of taking down the history for some axe to grind." To me that sounds precisely like telling someone to "stop saying something about a historical figure because they'd "rather focus on their positive sides"" And yet you claim that isn't at all what you said. Quite an unusual claim.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
photochemsyn 5y ago
Actually, I think the history of Feynmann and von Neumann is sort of illustrative. This quote in particular: > "Richard Feynman quote: [John] von Neumann gave me an interesting idea: that you don't have to be responsible for the world that you're in. So I have developed a very powerful sense of social irresponsibility as a result of von Neumann's advice. It's made me a very happy man ever since. But it was von Neumann who put the seed in that grew into my active irresponsibility!" This is sort of an argument for perpetual childhood... and children with nuclear weapons, playing with matches, well what could go wrong? P.S. It looks like this: https://www.henrirousseau.net/images/famous/war.jpg https://www.henrirousseau.net/images/famous/war.jpg Feynmann's lecture on physics are invaluable though and Caltech made them all available online recently, including the audio, so I don't see him getting 'cancelled' any time soon, even if the 1964 class was basically all-white-male, and Caltech didn't allow women students until the 1970s.
elzbardico 5y ago
One thing that I try to do as much as possible is try to just ignore this kind of people. They've got their agendas, and I am not going to give them the attention they want.

metalliqaz 5y ago

Feynman??? wtf

eyeundersand 5y ago
Surely you're joking... (sorry, couldn't resist) I'm out of the loop on this one too. Anyone care to explain?
- BizarroLand 5y ago
  Apparently he was a highly sexualized person and he partook in debauchery, got grabby with women in general and took advantage of naive science groupies when the opportunity presented itself and other things that are probably worse than that. https://galileospendulum.org/2014/07/13/the-problem-of-richard-feynman/ https://galileospendulum.org/2014/07/13/the-problem-of-richa...
- jandrese 5y ago
  If you read his autobiography he includes a fair bit of Red Pill style advice to the reader. Stuff like how to neg women to get them to sleep with you. He also includes anecdotes about how he was the least sexist guy in the room on other occasions. This is the danger of filtering past culture through a modern lens.
  - eyeundersand 5y ago
    Ha! I'm in the middle of reading it. was might be more suitable seeing as I haven't touched it in about two months now but that's how I like doing it (3-4 in parallel). Just went back to check, and found out I left it at Part 4, with his involvement in the military having recently started. Don't recall anything particularly improper as regards the allegations(facts?, I'm not sure) but it's probably coming up. Thanks for letting me know!

tubby12345 5y ago

Maybe some people are tired of sycophantic hero worship (in science and elsewhere). >We are trying to look at the worst of someone that did so much for the world. Have you ever considered that maybe hagiography is a disservice to these people? I know that if I were to do something extraordinary, I would be ashamed if other people used it as a smokescreen for my shortcomings.

beaconstudios 5y ago

trying to get a balanced perspective on people who did a lot for the world is not cancel culture. Winston Churchill saved Britain from the Nazis, but he was also pretty racist. That doesn't reduce the meaning of his positive accomplishments, but it does give his character more dimensionality.

esfandia 5y ago
I don't have data to back this up, but it seems to me most people were racist back then and there, but most people didn't save Britain from the Nazis, so from a PCA perspective one dimension is more significant than the other.
- goto11 5y ago
  Churchill's legacy is more complex that just "he had racist viewpoints, but everybody had that back then." He was an imperialist who believed in Britains right to conquer and rule inferior people around the world. He was bitterly opposed to dismantling the Empire. Even after WWII, he was responsible the the horrifically brutal suppression of the rebellious Mau Mau in Kenya, which included the use of concentration camps. Yes, this happend after the Nürnberg trials. So while he is rightfully remembered as a hero for opposing the Nazis when few others did, he also did much of the same the Nazis did, just far from Europe and against non-white people.

creata 5y ago

> People on HN are trying to cancel Feynman as well. What does the word "cancel" mean to you? Feynman can't be deplatformed since he's dead, and no one can deny his fundamental contributions to physics. > Please stop this onslaught of taking down the history for some axe to grind. You know, if someone told me to stop saying something about a historical figure because they'd "rather focus on their positive sides", I might call that "taking down the history".

systemvoltage 5y ago
> You know, if someone told me to stop saying something about a historical figure because they'd "rather focus on their positive sides" This is the most fragile strawman I've seen in a while. That's not what I said at all. I did not say we should stop talking about bad parts of the history. That would be literally be a totalitarian state.
- Kranar 5y ago
  How else would you interpret this sentence? "Please stop this onslaught of taking down the history for some axe to grind." To me that sounds precisely like telling someone to "stop saying something about a historical figure because they'd "rather focus on their positive sides"" And yet you claim that isn't at all what you said. Quite an unusual claim.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

photochemsyn 5y ago

Actually, I think the history of Feynmann and von Neumann is sort of illustrative. This quote in particular: > "Richard Feynman quote: [John] von Neumann gave me an interesting idea: that you don't have to be responsible for the world that you're in. So I have developed a very powerful sense of social irresponsibility as a result of von Neumann's advice. It's made me a very happy man ever since. But it was von Neumann who put the seed in that grew into my active irresponsibility!" This is sort of an argument for perpetual childhood... and children with nuclear weapons, playing with matches, well what could go wrong? P.S. It looks like this: https://www.henrirousseau.net/images/famous/war.jpg https://www.henrirousseau.net/images/famous/war.jpg Feynmann's lecture on physics are invaluable though and Caltech made them all available online recently, including the audio, so I don't see him getting 'cancelled' any time soon, even if the 1964 class was basically all-white-male, and Caltech didn't allow women students until the 1970s.

elzbardico 5y ago

One thing that I try to do as much as possible is try to just ignore this kind of people. They've got their agendas, and I am not going to give them the attention they want.