5 ms·

The Covid lab leak theory just got even stronger

79 points by georgecmu 5y ago

_red 5y ago
Fauci needs to be charged - millions have died as a result of their experiments in creating super-viruses.
- darkcha0s 5y ago
  Investigating viruses is normal procedure and has many advantages. Millions are spent investigating flu, common cold, mutations thereof, and other viruses every year. It's how we know how to deal with them, and how we can get better at making ways to counter them. If this spill-out theory is correct, the Lab is at fault for improperly handling these viruses, something you can't really fault Fauci for. Unless, of course, you buy in and regurgitate political dribble.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - eggy 5y ago
    The 12-letter furin, only found in the SARS-COV2 in humans, isn't in the Laos bat DNA that is closest to SARS-COV2, so it seems like it could be a smoking gun coming from the Wuhan lab due to this furin marker. Daszak, more than Fauci, seems to have been covering up by omitting obvious events or involvement, however, I am not sure Fauci doesn't carry any fault in what seems to be the carrying out of research that was not supposed to happen that inadvertently led to it making it into the human population. And just common sense is at play here: Virus breaks out in Wuhan; the Wuhan virology lab that studies corona viruses is nearby; Daszak and the WHO seem to have went into coverup CYA mode; database is taken offline. At what point do people finally say this is the most likely scenario and there should be an investigation into how it happened to prevent it in future, mistake or not, gain-of-function or not, no matter how you define it.
  - landemva 5y ago
    While Fauci oversaw funding the gain of function through an intermediary to avoid Obama's prohibition against this dangerous research, I'm not sure why you brought in Fauci. You could also mention Fauci oversight of funding dog torture to study beagles being eaten alive by sand fleas, according to PETA. https://www.peta.org/blog/fauci-niaid-puppies-animal-testing/ https://www.peta.org/blog/fauci-niaid-puppies-animal-testing...
  - yyyk 5y ago
    The story isn't about 'investigating viruses', but (if true) about gain of function virus research meant to enhance their ability in order to study them. It's noteworthy that all the research which helped with COVID so far had nothing to do with GoF research or the Lab. The spike research dates back to SARS-COV-1 studies. The vaccine technologies used had little to do with GoF. On the other hand, the Wuhan Lab, supposedly experienced with coronaviruses, has apparently gave us nothing useful to combat the pandemic. Apparently the Wuhan Lab's research was dangerous (this is true even if this thesis is not) yet also useless.
vnchr 5y ago
I thought we weren’t allowed to talk about this. If China wanted an investigation, they’d have allowed WHO to do it.
- credit_guy 5y ago
  If you thought you weren't allowed to talk about this, you were not alone. Here's a quote from the latest market outlook published by JP Morgan Asset Management strategist Michael Cembelast, which came out 3 days ago [1] Until this year, I had never run into a topic that I couldn’t write about. Anything affecting markets, economics or growth was fair game, and a lot of controversial topics show up in the Eye on the Market archives since its launch in 2003. But now I have run into such a thing, and I still don’t think I can write about it. Origin stories have always been contentious, whether they’re related to religion, mythology or viruses. [1] https://am.jpmorgan.com/us/en/asset-management/institutional/insights/market-insights/eye-on-the-market/the-thing/ https://am.jpmorgan.com/us/en/asset-management/institutional...
  - eggy 5y ago
    Yes, unfortunately it seems a theory or piece of news is memory-holed, banned, or otherwise stigmatized, and then even if evidence and facts show up later, retractions/corrections are rarely made. I remember reading Milan Kundera's "The Book of Laughter and Forgetting", and I cannot help but have weird vibes given the current zeitgeist, censorship, science arguments from authority vs. backing experiments and data, and the attempted mandating actions of the state. I remember when there was early evidence that the bio-distribution of the vaccine spike was making it to areas other than the injection site and that there were no data to of Pfizer/Moderna bio-distribution found on the internet. A petition by concerned scientists to see this data was file in June 2021[3]. Nobody was accusing that it had not been done, but that the data was not made available for peer review. The people who wrote, blogged, or YouTubed these questions simply saying we should look into this, were silenced by media/big tech. And now this October, a lab study from Sweden showed that the spike protein (from the virus or vaccine) can make its way into the nucleus of the cell in an in vitro (petri dish vs. in vivo, in clinical subject's bodies) study contrary to current and past hypotheses and evidence, is not at the forefront of the news to at least have other labs verify or falsify this study. It raises the issue of it interfering with DNA repair mechanisms in the cell nucleus. Meanwhile, after a study of less than 3000 children, we are pushing the vaccine on a very low risk group of 5 to 11-year-olds and villainizing parents who either had COVID or willingly took the vaccine and are exercising rational caution. There is no long-term safety data for any of the COVID vaccines, period. So why are news outlets and big pharma able to say things like, "it's 100% safe" without being censored?[4] [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/ [2] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0019436 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... [3] https://regenerativemc.com/biodistribution-of-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/ https://regenerativemc.com/biodistribution-of-pfizer-covid-1... [4] https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/31/health/pfizer-vaccine-adolescent-trial-results/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/31/health/pfizer-vaccine-adolesc...
kjaftaedi 5y ago
We know they were collecting all of this stuff in one location. We know they were working on artificially inserting these cleavage sites. We know they were working in unsafe BSL2 lab conditions. We know the scientists wanted to perform unsafe experiments with coronaviruses in bats. [0] We know the start of the outbreak was mere blocks away from the center of all of this madness. If it looks like a duck, etc. [0] - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/21/wuhan-scientists-planned-releaseskin-penetrating-nanoparticles/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/21/wuhan-scientists...
- landemva 5y ago
  I suspect there is a decent chance the release was not authorized and instead an insider was paid by a Western intelligence agency to steal and release it. CIA and MIA do questionable things all the time, and Israel has amazing abilities. The strategy could have been that a leak would embarass China and bring their leadership into the informal club of world rulers.
  - robbedpeter 5y ago
    "Let's potentially tank the world economy, because it would embarrass China, except let's not follow it up with evidence of their responsibility for a couple years!" I think it's highly unlikely that this was an intelligence op. There would have been incontrovertible proof of responsibility and one or more clear culprits. Instead, the pieces have had to be assembled indirectly, by experts, in ways that intelligence organizations aren't equipped to facilitate. Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence or laziness. To my view, the Wuhan lab was a pretend institution operated by pretend scientists so CCP officials could check boxes and tout their academic and institutional credibility. They were doing things that they shouldn't have under conditions that wouldn't pass muster in western countries. The world presumed on their competence and integrity and we are now paying out the nose.
    - landemva 5y ago
      FBI was told several times that Muslims in Florida were renting flight simulator time of passenger aircraft with no interest in practicing landing. The day before the attack, Rumsfeld consolidated all Pentagon audit documents and gave a press conference promising to get an audit completed. Guess which part of the Pentagon got destroyed the next day.
ricksunny 5y ago
57 points to the article as I write. Remind me why that doesn't qualify for its showing up on the HN front page?
- irthomasthomas 5y ago
  Crickets...
- WalterGR 5y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
  - ricksunny 5y ago
    Thanks - >How are stories ranked? >The basic algorithm divides points by a power of the time since a story was submitted. Comments in threads are ranked the same way. I think this criteria was satisfied. When I posted the comment, the story had been up for only 4 hours (I had taken a screenshot at the time: https://drive.google.com/file/d/16yyiJH06WQ2GbGKVgLz03473veW6swfm/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/16yyiJH06WQ2GbGKVgLz03473veW...). >Other factors affecting rank include user flags, anti-abuse software, software which demotes overheated discussions, account or site weighting, and moderator action. So it was likely one of these 5 criteria.

79 points by georgecmu 5y ago

_red 5y ago

Fauci needs to be charged - millions have died as a result of their experiments in creating super-viruses.

darkcha0s 5y ago
Investigating viruses is normal procedure and has many advantages. Millions are spent investigating flu, common cold, mutations thereof, and other viruses every year. It's how we know how to deal with them, and how we can get better at making ways to counter them. If this spill-out theory is correct, the Lab is at fault for improperly handling these viruses, something you can't really fault Fauci for. Unless, of course, you buy in and regurgitate political dribble.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- eggy 5y ago
  The 12-letter furin, only found in the SARS-COV2 in humans, isn't in the Laos bat DNA that is closest to SARS-COV2, so it seems like it could be a smoking gun coming from the Wuhan lab due to this furin marker. Daszak, more than Fauci, seems to have been covering up by omitting obvious events or involvement, however, I am not sure Fauci doesn't carry any fault in what seems to be the carrying out of research that was not supposed to happen that inadvertently led to it making it into the human population. And just common sense is at play here: Virus breaks out in Wuhan; the Wuhan virology lab that studies corona viruses is nearby; Daszak and the WHO seem to have went into coverup CYA mode; database is taken offline. At what point do people finally say this is the most likely scenario and there should be an investigation into how it happened to prevent it in future, mistake or not, gain-of-function or not, no matter how you define it.
- landemva 5y ago
  While Fauci oversaw funding the gain of function through an intermediary to avoid Obama's prohibition against this dangerous research, I'm not sure why you brought in Fauci. You could also mention Fauci oversight of funding dog torture to study beagles being eaten alive by sand fleas, according to PETA. https://www.peta.org/blog/fauci-niaid-puppies-animal-testing/ https://www.peta.org/blog/fauci-niaid-puppies-animal-testing...
- yyyk 5y ago
  The story isn't about 'investigating viruses', but (if true) about gain of function virus research meant to enhance their ability in order to study them. It's noteworthy that all the research which helped with COVID so far had nothing to do with GoF research or the Lab. The spike research dates back to SARS-COV-1 studies. The vaccine technologies used had little to do with GoF. On the other hand, the Wuhan Lab, supposedly experienced with coronaviruses, has apparently gave us nothing useful to combat the pandemic. Apparently the Wuhan Lab's research was dangerous (this is true even if this thesis is not) yet also useless.

vnchr 5y ago

I thought we weren’t allowed to talk about this. If China wanted an investigation, they’d have allowed WHO to do it.

credit_guy 5y ago
If you thought you weren't allowed to talk about this, you were not alone. Here's a quote from the latest market outlook published by JP Morgan Asset Management strategist Michael Cembelast, which came out 3 days ago [1] Until this year, I had never run into a topic that I couldn’t write about. Anything affecting markets, economics or growth was fair game, and a lot of controversial topics show up in the Eye on the Market archives since its launch in 2003. But now I have run into such a thing, and I still don’t think I can write about it. Origin stories have always been contentious, whether they’re related to religion, mythology or viruses. [1] https://am.jpmorgan.com/us/en/asset-management/institutional/insights/market-insights/eye-on-the-market/the-thing/ https://am.jpmorgan.com/us/en/asset-management/institutional...
- eggy 5y ago
  Yes, unfortunately it seems a theory or piece of news is memory-holed, banned, or otherwise stigmatized, and then even if evidence and facts show up later, retractions/corrections are rarely made. I remember reading Milan Kundera's "The Book of Laughter and Forgetting", and I cannot help but have weird vibes given the current zeitgeist, censorship, science arguments from authority vs. backing experiments and data, and the attempted mandating actions of the state. I remember when there was early evidence that the bio-distribution of the vaccine spike was making it to areas other than the injection site and that there were no data to of Pfizer/Moderna bio-distribution found on the internet. A petition by concerned scientists to see this data was file in June 2021[3]. Nobody was accusing that it had not been done, but that the data was not made available for peer review. The people who wrote, blogged, or YouTubed these questions simply saying we should look into this, were silenced by media/big tech. And now this October, a lab study from Sweden showed that the spike protein (from the virus or vaccine) can make its way into the nucleus of the cell in an in vitro (petri dish vs. in vivo, in clinical subject's bodies) study contrary to current and past hypotheses and evidence, is not at the forefront of the news to at least have other labs verify or falsify this study. It raises the issue of it interfering with DNA repair mechanisms in the cell nucleus. Meanwhile, after a study of less than 3000 children, we are pushing the vaccine on a very low risk group of 5 to 11-year-olds and villainizing parents who either had COVID or willingly took the vaccine and are exercising rational caution. There is no long-term safety data for any of the COVID vaccines, period. So why are news outlets and big pharma able to say things like, "it's 100% safe" without being censored?[4] [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/ [2] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0019436 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... [3] https://regenerativemc.com/biodistribution-of-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/ https://regenerativemc.com/biodistribution-of-pfizer-covid-1... [4] https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/31/health/pfizer-vaccine-adolescent-trial-results/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/31/health/pfizer-vaccine-adolesc...

kjaftaedi 5y ago

We know they were collecting all of this stuff in one location. We know they were working on artificially inserting these cleavage sites. We know they were working in unsafe BSL2 lab conditions. We know the scientists wanted to perform unsafe experiments with coronaviruses in bats. [0] We know the start of the outbreak was mere blocks away from the center of all of this madness. If it looks like a duck, etc. [0] - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/21/wuhan-scientists-planned-releaseskin-penetrating-nanoparticles/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/21/wuhan-scientists...

landemva 5y ago
I suspect there is a decent chance the release was not authorized and instead an insider was paid by a Western intelligence agency to steal and release it. CIA and MIA do questionable things all the time, and Israel has amazing abilities. The strategy could have been that a leak would embarass China and bring their leadership into the informal club of world rulers.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  "Let's potentially tank the world economy, because it would embarrass China, except let's not follow it up with evidence of their responsibility for a couple years!" I think it's highly unlikely that this was an intelligence op. There would have been incontrovertible proof of responsibility and one or more clear culprits. Instead, the pieces have had to be assembled indirectly, by experts, in ways that intelligence organizations aren't equipped to facilitate. Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence or laziness. To my view, the Wuhan lab was a pretend institution operated by pretend scientists so CCP officials could check boxes and tout their academic and institutional credibility. They were doing things that they shouldn't have under conditions that wouldn't pass muster in western countries. The world presumed on their competence and integrity and we are now paying out the nose.
  - landemva 5y ago
    FBI was told several times that Muslims in Florida were renting flight simulator time of passenger aircraft with no interest in practicing landing. The day before the attack, Rumsfeld consolidated all Pentagon audit documents and gave a press conference promising to get an audit completed. Guess which part of the Pentagon got destroyed the next day.

ricksunny 5y ago

57 points to the article as I write. Remind me why that doesn't qualify for its showing up on the HN front page?

irthomasthomas 5y ago
Crickets...
WalterGR 5y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
- ricksunny 5y ago
  Thanks - >How are stories ranked? >The basic algorithm divides points by a power of the time since a story was submitted. Comments in threads are ranked the same way. I think this criteria was satisfied. When I posted the comment, the story had been up for only 4 hours (I had taken a screenshot at the time: https://drive.google.com/file/d/16yyiJH06WQ2GbGKVgLz03473veW6swfm/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/16yyiJH06WQ2GbGKVgLz03473veW...). >Other factors affecting rank include user flags, anti-abuse software, software which demotes overheated discussions, account or site weighting, and moderator action. So it was likely one of these 5 criteria.