8 ms·

Ugh, they added "Typing notification". Thankfully it's only a protocol, we can ignore this if we want.

by d--b 5y ago

throwawaycuriou 5y ago
So far, how well are clients supporting the disabling of sending the typing beacon?
vadfa 5y ago
The entire spec is basically "ugh, they added thing-that-doesnt-really-belong-in-irc"
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  I have to say IRC could do with some mod cons like server/bouncer based scrollback and multi client syncing. I get these now through quassel but it'd be nice to have them in the protocol. I have a feeling IRCv3 will never be finished though. The activity level is just too low.
  - m_eiman 5y ago
    The chathistory command is for you: https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/chathistory https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/chathistory
  - buovjaga 5y ago
    There is plenty of implementation activity and I am summarising it in these types of posts: https://www.ilmarilauhakangas.fi/irc_technology_news_from_the_first_half_of_2021/ https://www.ilmarilauhakangas.fi/irc_technology_news_from_th...
- tester34 5y ago
  On the other hand what choices do they have?
Chris2048 5y ago
Is it mandated optional on the type-ers side? And opt-in?
- throwawaycuriou 5y ago
  If I'm reading the spec right, it's up to the clients to offer the opt-out or opt-in. There is fortunately a section on privacy considerations.
  - ziml77 5y ago
    I don't really think it matters what the spec says anyway. Who's going to enforce that? Like if it was required, would the server automatically reject messages if it didn't get a typing notification for an amount of time that's proportional to the length of the message?
- progval 5y ago
  "Clients are recommended to provide appropriate privacy controls when enabling this feature." https://ircv3.net/specs/client-tags/typing#privacy-considerations https://ircv3.net/specs/client-tags/typing#privacy-considera...
throwawaycuriou 5y ago
Official motivation/anti-motivation: 'Conversations can have an increased sense of immediacy when participants are aware that others are in the process of replying.' https://ircv3.net/specs/client-tags/typing#motivation https://ircv3.net/specs/client-tags/typing#motivation ... I need less 'sense of immediacy' in my life.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Yeah one of the best things about IRC is that immediate replies are not expected. It has little immediacy and I like that. Except for the noobs that plonk down a question and leave a minute later.
  - cbm-vic-20 5y ago
    Hi cbm-vic-20
  - throwawaycuriou 5y ago
    Same. I'm concerned that a leading IRC client that for its own growth reasons doesn't allow opting out of sending the beacon. Then you're left with an otherwise inferior client in order to participate. Or worse, a server that kicks you out if your client doesn't send the beacon.
  - kenniskrag 5y ago
    Are you always connected? If not how do you receive the answer?
    - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
      Yes, you just stay connected for a long time (idling). I run a bouncer (forward proxy for IRC, basically) on a server so I effectively stay connected 24/7 to all the channels I'm in, so asking a question, waiting a few minutes to see if someone answers immediately, and then leaving and coming back an hour or two later is totally normal (you could of course just keep your client connected, but my internet's not quite that reliable).
moritonal 5y ago
I once implemented in a dead chat-app a "typing notification" by sending both the `isTyping` flag, along with the length of the unsent message. On the clients side it was displayed as a blurred lorem-ipsum of the correct length. It was the nicest form of instant conversation I've ever had. Watching the blurred text become a message was lovely and every conversation felt snapper rather than anxiety-inducing as you start at the "x is typing" message, instead you just watch the sentance grow, then materialise.
- username91 5y ago
  This sounds really cool! What was the app's name?
  - moritonal 5y ago
    There is no reference to it on the internet, and I'm fairly sure no bit survives. Which is sad when I think I worked 6 months on it, but someone paid me to do it, so that's nice.
    - username91 5y ago
      That's a shame. Sounds like it was great work, just the same! Lots of my early stuff (late 90s and early 00s) has basically vanished from the 'net as well; I know the feeling.
- throwawaycuriou 5y ago
  I'm normally opposed to typing notifications, but I really like this idea for certain channels. How did you handle the case where many people are typing at once? >5 might get noisy if they all had their own lines.
  - moritonal 5y ago
    I think I had it so the first three typing would be shown sorted by whoever typed first, but then ellipsis the rest. The app was designed to be a more conversation-based app with things like a room being opened with an objective and closed then they were complete, so it favoured slower conversations.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nimbius 5y ago
"guys i just think emacs...i mean..." thunderous storm of typing notifications blacks out the screen

Ugh, they added "Typing notification". Thankfully it's only a protocol, we can ignore this if we want.

by d--b 5y ago

Ugh, they added "Typing notification". Thankfully it's only a protocol, we can ignore this if we want.

throwawaycuriou 5y ago

So far, how well are clients supporting the disabling of sending the typing beacon?

vadfa 5y ago

The entire spec is basically "ugh, they added thing-that-doesnt-really-belong-in-irc"

GekkePrutser 5y ago
I have to say IRC could do with some mod cons like server/bouncer based scrollback and multi client syncing. I get these now through quassel but it'd be nice to have them in the protocol. I have a feeling IRCv3 will never be finished though. The activity level is just too low.
- m_eiman 5y ago
  The chathistory command is for you: https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/chathistory https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/chathistory
- buovjaga 5y ago
  There is plenty of implementation activity and I am summarising it in these types of posts: https://www.ilmarilauhakangas.fi/irc_technology_news_from_the_first_half_of_2021/ https://www.ilmarilauhakangas.fi/irc_technology_news_from_th...
tester34 5y ago
On the other hand what choices do they have?

Chris2048 5y ago

Is it mandated optional on the type-ers side? And opt-in?

throwawaycuriou 5y ago
If I'm reading the spec right, it's up to the clients to offer the opt-out or opt-in. There is fortunately a section on privacy considerations.
- ziml77 5y ago
  I don't really think it matters what the spec says anyway. Who's going to enforce that? Like if it was required, would the server automatically reject messages if it didn't get a typing notification for an amount of time that's proportional to the length of the message?
progval 5y ago
"Clients are recommended to provide appropriate privacy controls when enabling this feature." https://ircv3.net/specs/client-tags/typing#privacy-considerations https://ircv3.net/specs/client-tags/typing#privacy-considera...

throwawaycuriou 5y ago

Official motivation/anti-motivation: 'Conversations can have an increased sense of immediacy when participants are aware that others are in the process of replying.' https://ircv3.net/specs/client-tags/typing#motivation https://ircv3.net/specs/client-tags/typing#motivation ... I need less 'sense of immediacy' in my life.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
Yeah one of the best things about IRC is that immediate replies are not expected. It has little immediacy and I like that. Except for the noobs that plonk down a question and leave a minute later.
- cbm-vic-20 5y ago
  Hi cbm-vic-20
- throwawaycuriou 5y ago
  Same. I'm concerned that a leading IRC client that for its own growth reasons doesn't allow opting out of sending the beacon. Then you're left with an otherwise inferior client in order to participate. Or worse, a server that kicks you out if your client doesn't send the beacon.
- kenniskrag 5y ago
  Are you always connected? If not how do you receive the answer?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    Yes, you just stay connected for a long time (idling). I run a bouncer (forward proxy for IRC, basically) on a server so I effectively stay connected 24/7 to all the channels I'm in, so asking a question, waiting a few minutes to see if someone answers immediately, and then leaving and coming back an hour or two later is totally normal (you could of course just keep your client connected, but my internet's not quite that reliable).

moritonal 5y ago

I once implemented in a dead chat-app a "typing notification" by sending both the `isTyping` flag, along with the length of the unsent message. On the clients side it was displayed as a blurred lorem-ipsum of the correct length. It was the nicest form of instant conversation I've ever had. Watching the blurred text become a message was lovely and every conversation felt snapper rather than anxiety-inducing as you start at the "x is typing" message, instead you just watch the sentance grow, then materialise.

username91 5y ago
This sounds really cool! What was the app's name?
- moritonal 5y ago
  There is no reference to it on the internet, and I'm fairly sure no bit survives. Which is sad when I think I worked 6 months on it, but someone paid me to do it, so that's nice.
  - username91 5y ago
    That's a shame. Sounds like it was great work, just the same! Lots of my early stuff (late 90s and early 00s) has basically vanished from the 'net as well; I know the feeling.
throwawaycuriou 5y ago
I'm normally opposed to typing notifications, but I really like this idea for certain channels. How did you handle the case where many people are typing at once? >5 might get noisy if they all had their own lines.
- moritonal 5y ago
  I think I had it so the first three typing would be shown sorted by whoever typed first, but then ellipsis the rest. The app was designed to be a more conversation-based app with things like a room being opened with an objective and closed then they were complete, so it favoured slower conversations.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

nimbius 5y ago

"guys i just think emacs...i mean..." thunderous storm of typing notifications blacks out the screen