14 ms·

How I Got My Brain Back

140 points by yarapavan 5y ago

GoToRO 5y ago
The main part is quitting her job. This at least gives you the opportunity to take control.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  Many people are just kinda forced to conform to society, and while we all have to deal with it, depression can at times manifest from making personal and moral compromises to survive when you feel that you have no other choice. It is like pretending to be someone you're not and convincing yourself that you're happy, when deep down you're miserable.
shane_b 5y ago
The comments on this are very binary. Depressed or not. And everyone has their threshold (temp sadness, debilitating, chronic) I remember when we used to think of depression as a spectrum instead of discrediting people that struggle, even if their struggle isn’t the same as yours. Is this another example of polarization of society maybe?
swader999 5y ago
Applaud her efforts. Another way is to just take a bunch of mushrooms.
- datameta 5y ago
  Set, setting, cast, and dose are hugely important. It is proven in clinical settings. On one's own, doing a smaller dose for the first time with friends in nice weather with minimal stressors can be a huge learning experience and an enjoyable journey.
  - MarcoZavala 5y ago
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  Definitely don't recommend without knowing yourself, and even then it can be dangerous. I once watched someone try mushrooms for their first time try to harm themselves and thankfully I was there to help them through it, but they had some underlying issues that were unknown and were only exacerbated by the pyschedelics.
- Terry_Roll 5y ago
  Hot off the press. Oct 2020. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7868946/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7868946/ Its thought the Psilocybin caps the serotonin receptors constantly stimulating them in much the same way SSRI's work but this approach may still have its pitfalls. https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkeqd8/what-happens-lsd-overdose https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkeqd8/what-happens-lsd-over... If you want a good legal laugh, swap sugar for Glycine, its found in sugar cane anyway, about 22% of it is glycine, so spoon it into your hot beverages, sprinkle it on your food and sit back and enjoy like your haven't laughed since you were kid! You will also smell nicer. Word of warning, you might get into trouble laughing at things that require a sombre or serious attitude so dont blame me if you get sacked from your job! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4955867/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4955867/
  - fbanon 5y ago
    "The LD50 of glycine is 7930 mg/kg in rats (oral), and it usually causes death by hyperexcitability."
    - Terry_Roll 5y ago
      What you are doing with Glycine is ramping up the 5 Alpha Reductase to upregulate these conversions in the body. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%CE%B1-Reductase#List_of_conversions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%CE%B1-Reductase#List_of_conv... Some SSRI's, not all, also work with Glycine in the brain. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4697779/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4697779/ Depression can be caused by too much stress, too much cortisol is not good for us. There are obviously other actions taking place in the body with Glycine, just like all chemicals perform multiple actions in the body, so nothing is a panacea. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8002905/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8002905/ https://www.nature.com/articles/srep10434 https://www.nature.com/articles/srep10434
smcleod 5y ago
It's great the author learnt a lot about themselves and is feeling better. I was quite surprised to see that they wanted to try "cupping" though, which is well documented as pseudo-science snake oil and sometimes even extremely harmful. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cupping-olympic-pseudoscience/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cupping-olympic-pseudoscien... https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2019/05/13/the-ridiculous-and-possibly-harmful-practice-of-cupping/?sh=5dfaec3a31f3 https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2019/05/13/the-r...
bserge 5y ago
Hah, I never had it in the first place. I hear there's medication that can help, but it's reserved for the elite and criminals.
klipt 5y ago
> Chatting on dating apps was surprisingly fulfilling: People were really kind and it was a fun way to talk to strangers, especially when that wasn’t possible IRL. Pretty sure using dating apps would have the opposite effect for most depressed men: would make them more depressed.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  For someone only interested in social chatting, if it's true that regular dating apps are unpleasant for men, there's always the option of gay dating apps. You do have to be tolerant of some amount of un-requested nudity, but otherwise it is a good option for just finding chat partners.
  - david_allison 5y ago
    If you're just looking for chatting partners, language exchange apps are going to be much better due to the asymmetric desire to learn English and the fact that just by talking, you're providing value to the other person.
- mdorazio 5y ago
  I have to agree - dating apps are depressing as hell for most men to use. The author appears to be female, which explains this view.
  - marginalia_nu 5y ago
    Lonely Software Engineers can chat with recruiters on LinkedIn instead. They have such sweet things to whisper in your ear.
    - tailspin2019 5y ago
      Genuine "laugh out loud" on this one. Thanks for that :)
  - agumonkey 5y ago
cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
I'm a little confused about the author's form of depression. He seemed to be able to still experience positive emotions and feelings. I don't mean to dismiss or invalidate his experience but I think depressive periods brought on by a real factor in life, say a personal hardship or stressor (in his case it seemed like work) are very, very different than chronic treatment resistant depression with anhedonia. One of the hardest symptoms of depression to treat is anhedonia, meaning blunted or no responses to positive emotions. Having severe anhedonia is both difficult to treat pharmacologically and therapeutically. I'm in the same boat as this author with habits/productivity, but with severe anhedonia, that only gets you so far. You can't use cheat codes, you only really know what to avoid. Since you don't really respond to rewards or dopamine hits everything is kind of messed up. You can maintain a momentum and it's better than sinking into oblivion but it always just kind of feels like treading water because the alternative is worse. I have to force myself to do everything, even things I "like" doing and it's very exhausting. So anyway glad that this author found a way out of his situation but just as an alternative viewpoint this form of depression is more common and has a better prognosis. Some people have other forms of depression for which this approach is lacking something because if you don't naturally feel positive emotions regardless of what's going on (and regardless of treatment modality, hence treatment resistant) stuff gets pretty messed up. You can change your actions and habits but not how you feel and if you're always trying to compensate by not having an innate positive feeling or drive about something you can get a momentum but then you're stuck there. It's better than the alternative and you make peace with it but it will always be kind of a broken system.
- rl3 5y ago
  I recall Robert Sapolsky saying that anhedonia is a "retreat into the rational mind". That doesn't sound so bad until you've experienced it. It's a deficit of life at the most fundamental perceptual level. I prefer sorrowful depressive states, because at least you're alive even if the pain is crippling. Anhedonia? The thing crippling you is mercurial, illusory. It's an absence, not a presence.
  - Baeocystin 5y ago
    I've dealt with anhedonia most of my life. I would not say that I prefer sorrowful states; pain is crippling across the board, and you cannot live in such a state chronically in the same way as you can in an anhedonic one. But I fully agree with you about it being a deficit, an absence. Large portions of the human experience are simply cut off from you, and it isn't something I would wish on anyone.
quanticle 5y ago
I'm really glad to see that the OP found help, but my experience with depression is that when depression is at its peak, that's when all the work that one puts into organization, productivity and tracking systems goes out the window. Logging? Journalling? I'm having trouble enough getting out of bed and putting one foot in front of the other. I don't have energy for any of that. To be clear, I'm not actually in a depressed phase now, but when I was in the past, that was my experience. Anything but the simplest of to-do lists was too much overhead.
antonkar 5y ago
In addition to applying for professional help, I found useful to read the main CBT book that psychologists use (https://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Behavior-Therapy-Third-Basics/dp/1462544193 https://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Behavior-Therapy-Third-Basi...). I found it easy to read and apply. I started walking every morning, recording my thoughts when my mood changes, found out my main aspiration and in general achieved so much clarity in my head
L0in 5y ago
I'm in my early 20s and i've been living with depression all my life. Only recently got unofficial diagnosis from my former therapist. When i read the title the first thought that poped in my head was "How can you get back something that you never had?". I don't know if it was my thought or my depression influenced that thought, but at the end of the day it's something i believe it's true.
yosito 5y ago
> I sat down and made a list of Good Day Cheat Code candidates. > I committed to doing the activity for three days in a row before evaluating its candidacy. Jesus that's a lot for someone going through depression to muster.
- binbag 5y ago
  Exactly. It doesn't sound like depression to me, it sounds like he was in a slump, feeling very low/sad for a while because of external factors.
- satysin 5y ago
  Indeed. I have suffered depression and just the idea of writing a list was too much. At times I did literally nothing for days at a time until I was forced to. I didn't eat anything that wasn't already in the house and that I could just open and consume. I remember thinking to myself "maybe playing on the PS3 will cheer me up" but the PS3 wasn't setup and so for three days I didn't get it from upstairs and set it up on my TV. Instead I just lay on the sofa and watched shit on tv thinking about setting it up but never actually doing it because just getting off the sofa and walking upstairs to get the PS3 was too fucking much for me to deal with. I would have to actually move and go upstairs, I would have to find the console, then find the controller, then the HDMI cable and power cable and the USB cable to charge the controller as the battery would be flat. Then find my games. And oh god pick a game from which meant making a choice from several options. If I managed to do all of that I would still have to move the TV so I could hook it up, was there a plug socket for the PS3 free? If not I would have to find somewhere else to plug it in or find an extension cord. It was all emotionally too much. That was depression for me. Being overwhelmed at just the idea of hooking up a PS3 to the TV. Trying to do any kind of cognitive introspection and writing a list wouldn't have even registered. People give all kinds of advice trying to help but you can tell those that have actually been diagnosed with depression and those that self-diagnose from the advice they offer. Go for a walk. Do some exercise. Make an action plan. Try meditation. Cook a meal you love. Do something you have always enjoyed like watch you favourite movie or play your favourite game. Sorry I know people are trying to help but when you are in that deep depression there is no "favourite" movie or book or video game anymore. There is the depression and nothing else. It is a void. An anaesthesia of your emotions and executive function while you remain awake but reaction-less. Edit: I also wanted to say that while I disagree with a lot of what Brie wrote in her article I don't want to come across as invalidating how she was feeling. Obviously we all experience things differently, however as far as I can tell she was not officially diagnosed and so while it is very possible she would have been diagnosed with depression it is also very possible she was "in a funk" due to how Covid changed the world the past ~20 months. I know many people that suffered from very 'depression-like' problems after their lifestyle was changed without their desire or permission with lockdowns, working from home, not seeing friends or family as usual, etc. While they were very down they were not depressed and everyone I know that experienced this managed to find ways, like Brie, to handle the unexpected and unwelcome changes to their lives during the pandemic. Reading the article comes across more of Brie experiencing this "Covid funk" (for want of a better name) than full on depression. Of course I could be wrong but without a proper diagnosis at the time Brie could also be wrong and I find it a bit uncomfortable when people describe themselves as depressed then proceed to say how going on long runs and being highly organised with post-it note systems helped them break their depression and "get their mind back".
kovek 5y ago
I believe most mental health issues are symptoms of a general health issues. Improving sleep is first (check out mouth tape). Then comes getting out of the house. Then exercise like yoga (improve your breathing). Then come other life changes. Of course, all with surrounding support.
lm9101 5y ago
The advent and closing of her story revolved around relationships. I'm curious as to why she didn't expand more on how this influenced her mental state
godDLL 5y ago
The author's post-it method is evocative of what I do. I have a bunch of cards. More than 20, less than 30 of them. All of my activities have been categorized into these cards. Such that I pick a card and go. This makes it easy to log and do stats wrt/ mood (inside view), and activity (outside view). Also it helps with applying "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are". Cards have limits on them. Time limits and space limits. Spacey limits are "anywhere", "town", "out" and "in". Timey limits are availability hours "from-to" and duration limits "from-upto". There are four cards that are "anywhere" and "anytime". They are called "Burn" for time-limited aimlessness, "Drain" for interruptions and forced unpleasantness, and "Stop, wait" for forced idle time. Forced is unexpected and not initiated by myself in this case. There's also "Crash" for unscheduled or improperly initiated sleep. These are red cards. There are two more cards that are similar, "Calls" and "Commute" that have two time-windows in a day and are "anywhere". These too are red cards. There are green cards like "Cook and/or Eat" or "Garden", "Improve Habitat", "Washup or Cleanup", "Shower or Groom" and others that are "inside". Also "Code/Write" and "make Music/Play" that are orange "inside" cards. There are blue cards like "Stock up" or "Job", "Socialize" that are "outside" and have hours attached. And cards that are limited in time(window) but not space like "Sharpen Axe", "Walk or Sit", "Take stock and Adjust". Those are orange cards. The "Exercise" and "Job" cards unlock a "Coffee and Smokes" card and a "Snack" card for one-time use. Even just making these cards and following, using them for 10 days or so made my mind markedly different. Removed a whole level of underlying anxiety that I did not identify as a removable category. Made me appreciate myself in a different way. And it is a thing you do if "You treat yourself as someone you're responsible for, responsible for helping". It came from the idea that RPGs are systems emulating reality. So it should work in reverse, treating yourself as a PC character and categorizing the larger world around you as a game-board with cards. Make your own cards. Very much worth the experience (and points). <3
- godDLL 5y ago
  I have check-lists for "Sleep/Recover", and "Shower or Groom". Check-lists got me started and gave me a taste of that subtracted anxiety. Those are very much advised.
binbag 5y ago
I don't think the author understands what depression is, or at least what it is like for the majority of sufferers. I feel like the article trivialises depression as something to be worked through and overcome. If you have chronic depression, this article is probably going to irritate you. It's kind of like when people say you have you 'fight' cancer. You can't fight cancer, and those that die of cancer didn't die because they were too weak to put up a good fight.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  She clearly understands and is an expert on how depression felt for her and how she managed to improve her situation. And that is all she writes about in the article. So your comment is off target.
- drdec 5y ago
  I understand where you are coming from, but I think there's room to be a little more charitable to the author. While her experience with depression may not be applicable to everyone, that does not invalidate what she had to say. Her approach was helpful to her and it might be helpful to others. If you are suffering from depression, chronic or otherwise, first, I am sorry to hear that. It is a difficult place to be. I wish I knew of a technique that worked for everyone but unfortunately I do not. I recently recovered from a long bout with depression myself. I'm not entirely certain what caused the difference after so many years. One potential thing is that I went through an experience that reset my gut bacteria. It sounds a little strange that that might be the thing, but it seems to be the most logical explanation. I don't know if it will work for others, but I'm putting it out there in case it does.
  - skinnymuch 5y ago
    It’s interesting how many people are irritated by the tone of the article and how it appears to trivialize depression. The argument isn’t the blogger should not have written any thing. Just not trivialize it and make themselves seem so great at solving stuff. So the people responding the advice can still be helpful aren’t actually responding to the many people including me with issues with the post.
poulpy123 5y ago
I started 3 months ago a spravato therapy for medication resistant depression, and while I'm not back at my former self, for the moment I feel much better.
wruza 5y ago
It struck me this summer (can’t get up, weak muscle, no motivation, “mind tremor”). My doctor suggested the following steps: morning exercise, make a plan for a day/week and mostly stick to it, do everything you have to do, get regular and good sleep. No-medicine mode. I didn’t feel instantly fine ofc, and getting out of it is not the point I’m writing this comment. That state was so motivating that now I somehow miss it. For a week or two I turned into a man who can do everything because of the inner force of rigid determination which you build up at the morning and then sculpt your day around it, never missing a task, never delaying a call, never questioning a decision, never fearing an interaction. It just had to be done. It was like living under 3x gravity which would crush you once you lay down without a purpose. The most surprising part was that I can do that, can just go and do whatever was planned under the depression, and not get anxious, lazy, tired or questioning why. Now it’s all gone, and I’m back to “why would I do that, it’s fine enough already” mode. Human minds are bullshit.
- Zababa 5y ago
  I'll preface this by saying that I don't want to invalidate or diminish your experience, this is genuine curiosity. If you can't get up, have weak muscles and no motivation, how do you do morning exercise and stick to a plan? I feel like pressure that something has to be done could be called a form of motivation, but again I'm not sure.
  - wruza 5y ago
    In short, it was hate. As I said, for me depression also manifested as a set of very negative sensations (you’re almost dead, feel like sort of hangover). After doc said that I can fight it, I became very angry at it and wanted to punch it in its face even with my numb hands, and that was a big part of that morning momentum buildup. It wasn’t a positive motivation, like “If I do some aerobics I will feel better”, it was more along the lines of “I hate your rule and you will die with me”. Thinking of it more, you’re right, it is motivation, but with a non-trivial connection to the result. He probably knew me well enough to suggest the right plan, or it was just a good guess. Because anger and revolt are my base personal traits, and depression couldn’t take it from me that easy. E.g. being sometimes anxious, I often make self-exposition just to spite these feelings, instead of fleeing from their source. (Please don’t think I’m non-civilized though, it is completely internal thing.) As of formal diagnosis, yes that was completely it, in an acute form (i.e. not chronic). Edit: also I listened to Jocko Willink speeches in that state and understood them sooo well. He was so obvious. Now when my usual reasoning returned, they sound a little funny. It’s like two completely parallel worlds.
Tarucho 5y ago
The author was doing 45 minute HIIT routines while being depressed. Go figure. I find this kind of articles infuriating. All this narcissistic talk about how they handled it and whatever, signaling how they are above all that (the disclaimer at the bottom does not qualify, we are not that retarded). After 30 years of suffering treatment resistant bipolar depression I just find all this diminishing of clinical depression really disgusting and paternalizing (did some editing here, I don't have anything personal against the author) Yes, we depressed people are so retard. We don`t understand how exercise or clean eating benefit us, we cannot organize our lives, we like to suffer...and lose jobs...yeah, of course.
- jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
  I find this kind of comment frustrating. The author repeatedly, throughout the article acknowledges her privilege (e.g. financial security to quit her job) and that these techniques are specific to her. Not just a disclaimer at the bottom. The top comment of HN discussions almost always seems to be a cynical takedown with the least-charitable interpretation of an author's words while assuming the worst intentions.
  - sergiomattei 5y ago
    Welcome to the most toxic corner of the Internet. I had to take a break from this site because it was negatively impacting my mood.
    - dang 5y ago
      Would you please stop breaking the site guidelines? Between https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29291748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29291748 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29289512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29289512, you're in no position to complain about toxicity. It isn't remotely fair to call HN "the most toxic corner of the internet". Like any large(ish) forum, it gets a wide distribution of comments. Inevitably some are toxic—that's how the pubic internet unfortunately works. But the overwhelming majority are not toxic, as anyone can see for themselves simply by scrolling through the public feed: https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments. Having worked hard for years to try to reduce toxicity on this site, I'm definitely open to getting better at it—I know how frustrating it is not to be able to have more of an effect. But it doesn't seem right to be complaining about toxicity in others while clearly adding it yourself.
kwertyoowiyop 5y ago
Some gatekeeping is happening in the comments. This is just one person’s experience. Their level and strength of depression. Their personality. Their situation. If anything they said is relevant or helpful, great. If not, please share your own story and help others!
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  Yes people with serious depression etc are offended. I don’t see how that is gatekeeping. We just believe the writing should reflect how this person was not really suffering that much. There are a number of examples given throughout the comments showcasing that. It would be nice if the blog post was more aware of their situation vs the situation for actually [clinically] depressed people. The word depressed does not have a firm meaning in society. This benefits the blogger in that their feats sound impressive and make depression not seem to be such a big deal. I don’t see how this is gate keeping.
  - slothtrop 5y ago
    > I don’t see how that is gatekeeping. Because you don't get to decide whether someone is clinically depressed.
    - Tarucho 5y ago
      And you don`t get to decide how others should react to someone else articles content. Whether I believe the article is full of shit or not is my choice and I can express it freely why not?
      - mbrodersen 5y ago
        Of course you can. And others can do the same to you.
  - Karunamon 5y ago
    >this person was not really suffering that much. With all due respect, invalidating someone else's lived experience and telling someone that did something that worked for them that they shouldn't share it because it doesn't fit your definition of "suffering that much" is, quite literally, gatekeeping.
oblak 5y ago
If I had to summarize this article in one word, it'd be "dishonest". This is some naive teenage girl level shit and I am not buying it coming from an adult. Not to mention having html { opacity: 0; } on content that's already there. Thanks for sharing, I guess
ISL 5y ago
If you find yourself with the symptoms outlined in the article's "Going Upside Down", one need not invent a treatment plan from scratch. There are people who literally specialize in helping people with precisely these symptoms: therapists. Just as a physical-therapist can sometimes suggest an exercise that you'd never have thought of (That tingling in my fingers is related to a muscle in my back? What?), a good therapist will be able to help you navigate this rough spot in your life. As an action item, a therapist at lyrahealth.com has been a key part of helping me manage stress/life-changes/pandemic in recent months. Many employers offer mental-health consultation services through their health plans -- the employer only sees aggregate numbers, not your personal information. It is daunting to realize, "holy poops, I need a helping hand here". It is perhaps doubly-daunting to find a way over the hump to make the initial call/contact to a pro, but it is possible, and you can do it. There is a pretty good chance that someone at the other end can begin helping you work through life's challenges; they've already helped others in a similar situation. It can get better!
zebriez 5y ago
Hello. Author of the post here. Thanks everyone for reading and sharing thoughts. I expected responses would fall along these lines and I had my qualms about posting at all (which I mention in the piece). Ultimately, after lots and lots of feedback and contemplation, I decided that, on the balance, it would be probably be more helpful than hurtful to post. And I'm glad I did. To address the questions about whether it is fair, or accurate (whatever that means), to characterize my state as depression, I can say that 1/I was formally diagnosed by a clinician 2/ I was severely suicidal (though it would have require a close read to have picked that up) and 3/this clinician and I were seriously exploring hospitalization. My depression was and is not chronic. I am well-aware depression looks different for everyone and was clear about representing anyone else's experience in the post. I don't mean to be snarky, but I would hope that after all this time on the internet, encountering all kinds of people in all kinds of places, we might be able to grasp the diversity, variation, and nuance in the human experience. I think it's worth reflecting on whether or not you believe someone else's experience has to match your own in order to have validity. Most importantly, though, my heart goes out to any and all people who are hurting, in any way shape or form.
- Tarucho 5y ago
  > I don't mean to be snarky, but I would hope that after all this time on the internet, encountering all kinds of people in all kinds of places, we might be able to grasp the diversity, variation, and nuance in the human experience.
- tailspin2019 5y ago
  Thanks very much for sharing your experience. It will be appreciated by far many more people than those who take to the comments here. Ignore the naysayers :-) I'm inspired by the Post-It notes idea...
  - zebriez 5y ago
    Thanks for saying that :)
- mbrodersen 5y ago

140 points by yarapavan 5y ago

GoToRO 5y ago

The main part is quitting her job. This at least gives you the opportunity to take control.

encryptluks2 5y ago
Many people are just kinda forced to conform to society, and while we all have to deal with it, depression can at times manifest from making personal and moral compromises to survive when you feel that you have no other choice. It is like pretending to be someone you're not and convincing yourself that you're happy, when deep down you're miserable.

shane_b 5y ago

The comments on this are very binary. Depressed or not. And everyone has their threshold (temp sadness, debilitating, chronic) I remember when we used to think of depression as a spectrum instead of discrediting people that struggle, even if their struggle isn’t the same as yours. Is this another example of polarization of society maybe?

swader999 5y ago

Applaud her efforts. Another way is to just take a bunch of mushrooms.

datameta 5y ago
Set, setting, cast, and dose are hugely important. It is proven in clinical settings. On one's own, doing a smaller dose for the first time with friends in nice weather with minimal stressors can be a huge learning experience and an enjoyable journey.
- MarcoZavala 5y ago
encryptluks2 5y ago
Definitely don't recommend without knowing yourself, and even then it can be dangerous. I once watched someone try mushrooms for their first time try to harm themselves and thankfully I was there to help them through it, but they had some underlying issues that were unknown and were only exacerbated by the pyschedelics.
Terry_Roll 5y ago
Hot off the press. Oct 2020. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7868946/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7868946/ Its thought the Psilocybin caps the serotonin receptors constantly stimulating them in much the same way SSRI's work but this approach may still have its pitfalls. https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkeqd8/what-happens-lsd-overdose https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkeqd8/what-happens-lsd-over... If you want a good legal laugh, swap sugar for Glycine, its found in sugar cane anyway, about 22% of it is glycine, so spoon it into your hot beverages, sprinkle it on your food and sit back and enjoy like your haven't laughed since you were kid! You will also smell nicer. Word of warning, you might get into trouble laughing at things that require a sombre or serious attitude so dont blame me if you get sacked from your job! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4955867/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4955867/
- fbanon 5y ago
  "The LD50 of glycine is 7930 mg/kg in rats (oral), and it usually causes death by hyperexcitability."
  - Terry_Roll 5y ago
    What you are doing with Glycine is ramping up the 5 Alpha Reductase to upregulate these conversions in the body. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%CE%B1-Reductase#List_of_conversions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%CE%B1-Reductase#List_of_conv... Some SSRI's, not all, also work with Glycine in the brain. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4697779/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4697779/ Depression can be caused by too much stress, too much cortisol is not good for us. There are obviously other actions taking place in the body with Glycine, just like all chemicals perform multiple actions in the body, so nothing is a panacea. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8002905/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8002905/ https://www.nature.com/articles/srep10434 https://www.nature.com/articles/srep10434

smcleod 5y ago

It's great the author learnt a lot about themselves and is feeling better. I was quite surprised to see that they wanted to try "cupping" though, which is well documented as pseudo-science snake oil and sometimes even extremely harmful. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cupping-olympic-pseudoscience/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cupping-olympic-pseudoscien... https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2019/05/13/the-ridiculous-and-possibly-harmful-practice-of-cupping/?sh=5dfaec3a31f3 https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2019/05/13/the-r...

bserge 5y ago

Hah, I never had it in the first place. I hear there's medication that can help, but it's reserved for the elite and criminals.

klipt 5y ago

> Chatting on dating apps was surprisingly fulfilling: People were really kind and it was a fun way to talk to strangers, especially when that wasn’t possible IRL. Pretty sure using dating apps would have the opposite effect for most depressed men: would make them more depressed.

tsimionescu 5y ago
For someone only interested in social chatting, if it's true that regular dating apps are unpleasant for men, there's always the option of gay dating apps. You do have to be tolerant of some amount of un-requested nudity, but otherwise it is a good option for just finding chat partners.
- david_allison 5y ago
  If you're just looking for chatting partners, language exchange apps are going to be much better due to the asymmetric desire to learn English and the fact that just by talking, you're providing value to the other person.
mdorazio 5y ago
I have to agree - dating apps are depressing as hell for most men to use. The author appears to be female, which explains this view.
- marginalia_nu 5y ago
  Lonely Software Engineers can chat with recruiters on LinkedIn instead. They have such sweet things to whisper in your ear.
  - tailspin2019 5y ago
    Genuine "laugh out loud" on this one. Thanks for that :)
- agumonkey 5y ago

cupcake-unicorn 5y ago

I'm a little confused about the author's form of depression. He seemed to be able to still experience positive emotions and feelings. I don't mean to dismiss or invalidate his experience but I think depressive periods brought on by a real factor in life, say a personal hardship or stressor (in his case it seemed like work) are very, very different than chronic treatment resistant depression with anhedonia. One of the hardest symptoms of depression to treat is anhedonia, meaning blunted or no responses to positive emotions. Having severe anhedonia is both difficult to treat pharmacologically and therapeutically. I'm in the same boat as this author with habits/productivity, but with severe anhedonia, that only gets you so far. You can't use cheat codes, you only really know what to avoid. Since you don't really respond to rewards or dopamine hits everything is kind of messed up. You can maintain a momentum and it's better than sinking into oblivion but it always just kind of feels like treading water because the alternative is worse. I have to force myself to do everything, even things I "like" doing and it's very exhausting. So anyway glad that this author found a way out of his situation but just as an alternative viewpoint this form of depression is more common and has a better prognosis. Some people have other forms of depression for which this approach is lacking something because if you don't naturally feel positive emotions regardless of what's going on (and regardless of treatment modality, hence treatment resistant) stuff gets pretty messed up. You can change your actions and habits but not how you feel and if you're always trying to compensate by not having an innate positive feeling or drive about something you can get a momentum but then you're stuck there. It's better than the alternative and you make peace with it but it will always be kind of a broken system.

rl3 5y ago
I recall Robert Sapolsky saying that anhedonia is a "retreat into the rational mind". That doesn't sound so bad until you've experienced it. It's a deficit of life at the most fundamental perceptual level. I prefer sorrowful depressive states, because at least you're alive even if the pain is crippling. Anhedonia? The thing crippling you is mercurial, illusory. It's an absence, not a presence.
- Baeocystin 5y ago
  I've dealt with anhedonia most of my life. I would not say that I prefer sorrowful states; pain is crippling across the board, and you cannot live in such a state chronically in the same way as you can in an anhedonic one. But I fully agree with you about it being a deficit, an absence. Large portions of the human experience are simply cut off from you, and it isn't something I would wish on anyone.

quanticle 5y ago

I'm really glad to see that the OP found help, but my experience with depression is that when depression is at its peak, that's when all the work that one puts into organization, productivity and tracking systems goes out the window. Logging? Journalling? I'm having trouble enough getting out of bed and putting one foot in front of the other. I don't have energy for any of that. To be clear, I'm not actually in a depressed phase now, but when I was in the past, that was my experience. Anything but the simplest of to-do lists was too much overhead.

antonkar 5y ago

In addition to applying for professional help, I found useful to read the main CBT book that psychologists use (https://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Behavior-Therapy-Third-Basics/dp/1462544193 https://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Behavior-Therapy-Third-Basi...). I found it easy to read and apply. I started walking every morning, recording my thoughts when my mood changes, found out my main aspiration and in general achieved so much clarity in my head

L0in 5y ago

I'm in my early 20s and i've been living with depression all my life. Only recently got unofficial diagnosis from my former therapist. When i read the title the first thought that poped in my head was "How can you get back something that you never had?". I don't know if it was my thought or my depression influenced that thought, but at the end of the day it's something i believe it's true.

yosito 5y ago

> I sat down and made a list of Good Day Cheat Code candidates. > I committed to doing the activity for three days in a row before evaluating its candidacy. Jesus that's a lot for someone going through depression to muster.

binbag 5y ago
Exactly. It doesn't sound like depression to me, it sounds like he was in a slump, feeling very low/sad for a while because of external factors.
satysin 5y ago
Indeed. I have suffered depression and just the idea of writing a list was too much. At times I did literally nothing for days at a time until I was forced to. I didn't eat anything that wasn't already in the house and that I could just open and consume. I remember thinking to myself "maybe playing on the PS3 will cheer me up" but the PS3 wasn't setup and so for three days I didn't get it from upstairs and set it up on my TV. Instead I just lay on the sofa and watched shit on tv thinking about setting it up but never actually doing it because just getting off the sofa and walking upstairs to get the PS3 was too fucking much for me to deal with. I would have to actually move and go upstairs, I would have to find the console, then find the controller, then the HDMI cable and power cable and the USB cable to charge the controller as the battery would be flat. Then find my games. And oh god pick a game from which meant making a choice from several options. If I managed to do all of that I would still have to move the TV so I could hook it up, was there a plug socket for the PS3 free? If not I would have to find somewhere else to plug it in or find an extension cord. It was all emotionally too much. That was depression for me. Being overwhelmed at just the idea of hooking up a PS3 to the TV. Trying to do any kind of cognitive introspection and writing a list wouldn't have even registered. People give all kinds of advice trying to help but you can tell those that have actually been diagnosed with depression and those that self-diagnose from the advice they offer. Go for a walk. Do some exercise. Make an action plan. Try meditation. Cook a meal you love. Do something you have always enjoyed like watch you favourite movie or play your favourite game. Sorry I know people are trying to help but when you are in that deep depression there is no "favourite" movie or book or video game anymore. There is the depression and nothing else. It is a void. An anaesthesia of your emotions and executive function while you remain awake but reaction-less. Edit: I also wanted to say that while I disagree with a lot of what Brie wrote in her article I don't want to come across as invalidating how she was feeling. Obviously we all experience things differently, however as far as I can tell she was not officially diagnosed and so while it is very possible she would have been diagnosed with depression it is also very possible she was "in a funk" due to how Covid changed the world the past ~20 months. I know many people that suffered from very 'depression-like' problems after their lifestyle was changed without their desire or permission with lockdowns, working from home, not seeing friends or family as usual, etc. While they were very down they were not depressed and everyone I know that experienced this managed to find ways, like Brie, to handle the unexpected and unwelcome changes to their lives during the pandemic. Reading the article comes across more of Brie experiencing this "Covid funk" (for want of a better name) than full on depression. Of course I could be wrong but without a proper diagnosis at the time Brie could also be wrong and I find it a bit uncomfortable when people describe themselves as depressed then proceed to say how going on long runs and being highly organised with post-it note systems helped them break their depression and "get their mind back".

kovek 5y ago

I believe most mental health issues are symptoms of a general health issues. Improving sleep is first (check out mouth tape). Then comes getting out of the house. Then exercise like yoga (improve your breathing). Then come other life changes. Of course, all with surrounding support.

lm9101 5y ago

The advent and closing of her story revolved around relationships. I'm curious as to why she didn't expand more on how this influenced her mental state

godDLL 5y ago

The author's post-it method is evocative of what I do. I have a bunch of cards. More than 20, less than 30 of them. All of my activities have been categorized into these cards. Such that I pick a card and go. This makes it easy to log and do stats wrt/ mood (inside view), and activity (outside view). Also it helps with applying "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are". Cards have limits on them. Time limits and space limits. Spacey limits are "anywhere", "town", "out" and "in". Timey limits are availability hours "from-to" and duration limits "from-upto". There are four cards that are "anywhere" and "anytime". They are called "Burn" for time-limited aimlessness, "Drain" for interruptions and forced unpleasantness, and "Stop, wait" for forced idle time. Forced is unexpected and not initiated by myself in this case. There's also "Crash" for unscheduled or improperly initiated sleep. These are red cards. There are two more cards that are similar, "Calls" and "Commute" that have two time-windows in a day and are "anywhere". These too are red cards. There are green cards like "Cook and/or Eat" or "Garden", "Improve Habitat", "Washup or Cleanup", "Shower or Groom" and others that are "inside". Also "Code/Write" and "make Music/Play" that are orange "inside" cards. There are blue cards like "Stock up" or "Job", "Socialize" that are "outside" and have hours attached. And cards that are limited in time(window) but not space like "Sharpen Axe", "Walk or Sit", "Take stock and Adjust". Those are orange cards. The "Exercise" and "Job" cards unlock a "Coffee and Smokes" card and a "Snack" card for one-time use. Even just making these cards and following, using them for 10 days or so made my mind markedly different. Removed a whole level of underlying anxiety that I did not identify as a removable category. Made me appreciate myself in a different way. And it is a thing you do if "You treat yourself as someone you're responsible for, responsible for helping". It came from the idea that RPGs are systems emulating reality. So it should work in reverse, treating yourself as a PC character and categorizing the larger world around you as a game-board with cards. Make your own cards. Very much worth the experience (and points). <3

godDLL 5y ago
I have check-lists for "Sleep/Recover", and "Shower or Groom". Check-lists got me started and gave me a taste of that subtracted anxiety. Those are very much advised.

binbag 5y ago

I don't think the author understands what depression is, or at least what it is like for the majority of sufferers. I feel like the article trivialises depression as something to be worked through and overcome. If you have chronic depression, this article is probably going to irritate you. It's kind of like when people say you have you 'fight' cancer. You can't fight cancer, and those that die of cancer didn't die because they were too weak to put up a good fight.

mbrodersen 5y ago
She clearly understands and is an expert on how depression felt for her and how she managed to improve her situation. And that is all she writes about in the article. So your comment is off target.
drdec 5y ago
I understand where you are coming from, but I think there's room to be a little more charitable to the author. While her experience with depression may not be applicable to everyone, that does not invalidate what she had to say. Her approach was helpful to her and it might be helpful to others. If you are suffering from depression, chronic or otherwise, first, I am sorry to hear that. It is a difficult place to be. I wish I knew of a technique that worked for everyone but unfortunately I do not. I recently recovered from a long bout with depression myself. I'm not entirely certain what caused the difference after so many years. One potential thing is that I went through an experience that reset my gut bacteria. It sounds a little strange that that might be the thing, but it seems to be the most logical explanation. I don't know if it will work for others, but I'm putting it out there in case it does.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  It’s interesting how many people are irritated by the tone of the article and how it appears to trivialize depression. The argument isn’t the blogger should not have written any thing. Just not trivialize it and make themselves seem so great at solving stuff. So the people responding the advice can still be helpful aren’t actually responding to the many people including me with issues with the post.

poulpy123 5y ago

I started 3 months ago a spravato therapy for medication resistant depression, and while I'm not back at my former self, for the moment I feel much better.

wruza 5y ago

It struck me this summer (can’t get up, weak muscle, no motivation, “mind tremor”). My doctor suggested the following steps: morning exercise, make a plan for a day/week and mostly stick to it, do everything you have to do, get regular and good sleep. No-medicine mode. I didn’t feel instantly fine ofc, and getting out of it is not the point I’m writing this comment. That state was so motivating that now I somehow miss it. For a week or two I turned into a man who can do everything because of the inner force of rigid determination which you build up at the morning and then sculpt your day around it, never missing a task, never delaying a call, never questioning a decision, never fearing an interaction. It just had to be done. It was like living under 3x gravity which would crush you once you lay down without a purpose. The most surprising part was that I can do that, can just go and do whatever was planned under the depression, and not get anxious, lazy, tired or questioning why. Now it’s all gone, and I’m back to “why would I do that, it’s fine enough already” mode. Human minds are bullshit.

Zababa 5y ago
I'll preface this by saying that I don't want to invalidate or diminish your experience, this is genuine curiosity. If you can't get up, have weak muscles and no motivation, how do you do morning exercise and stick to a plan? I feel like pressure that something has to be done could be called a form of motivation, but again I'm not sure.
- wruza 5y ago
  In short, it was hate. As I said, for me depression also manifested as a set of very negative sensations (you’re almost dead, feel like sort of hangover). After doc said that I can fight it, I became very angry at it and wanted to punch it in its face even with my numb hands, and that was a big part of that morning momentum buildup. It wasn’t a positive motivation, like “If I do some aerobics I will feel better”, it was more along the lines of “I hate your rule and you will die with me”. Thinking of it more, you’re right, it is motivation, but with a non-trivial connection to the result. He probably knew me well enough to suggest the right plan, or it was just a good guess. Because anger and revolt are my base personal traits, and depression couldn’t take it from me that easy. E.g. being sometimes anxious, I often make self-exposition just to spite these feelings, instead of fleeing from their source. (Please don’t think I’m non-civilized though, it is completely internal thing.) As of formal diagnosis, yes that was completely it, in an acute form (i.e. not chronic). Edit: also I listened to Jocko Willink speeches in that state and understood them sooo well. He was so obvious. Now when my usual reasoning returned, they sound a little funny. It’s like two completely parallel worlds.

Tarucho 5y ago

The author was doing 45 minute HIIT routines while being depressed. Go figure. I find this kind of articles infuriating. All this narcissistic talk about how they handled it and whatever, signaling how they are above all that (the disclaimer at the bottom does not qualify, we are not that retarded). After 30 years of suffering treatment resistant bipolar depression I just find all this diminishing of clinical depression really disgusting and paternalizing (did some editing here, I don't have anything personal against the author) Yes, we depressed people are so retard. We don`t understand how exercise or clean eating benefit us, we cannot organize our lives, we like to suffer...and lose jobs...yeah, of course.

jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
I find this kind of comment frustrating. The author repeatedly, throughout the article acknowledges her privilege (e.g. financial security to quit her job) and that these techniques are specific to her. Not just a disclaimer at the bottom. The top comment of HN discussions almost always seems to be a cynical takedown with the least-charitable interpretation of an author's words while assuming the worst intentions.
- sergiomattei 5y ago
  Welcome to the most toxic corner of the Internet. I had to take a break from this site because it was negatively impacting my mood.
  - dang 5y ago
    Would you please stop breaking the site guidelines? Between https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29291748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29291748 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29289512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29289512, you're in no position to complain about toxicity. It isn't remotely fair to call HN "the most toxic corner of the internet". Like any large(ish) forum, it gets a wide distribution of comments. Inevitably some are toxic—that's how the pubic internet unfortunately works. But the overwhelming majority are not toxic, as anyone can see for themselves simply by scrolling through the public feed: https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments. Having worked hard for years to try to reduce toxicity on this site, I'm definitely open to getting better at it—I know how frustrating it is not to be able to have more of an effect. But it doesn't seem right to be complaining about toxicity in others while clearly adding it yourself.

kwertyoowiyop 5y ago

Some gatekeeping is happening in the comments. This is just one person’s experience. Their level and strength of depression. Their personality. Their situation. If anything they said is relevant or helpful, great. If not, please share your own story and help others!

skinnymuch 5y ago
Yes people with serious depression etc are offended. I don’t see how that is gatekeeping. We just believe the writing should reflect how this person was not really suffering that much. There are a number of examples given throughout the comments showcasing that. It would be nice if the blog post was more aware of their situation vs the situation for actually [clinically] depressed people. The word depressed does not have a firm meaning in society. This benefits the blogger in that their feats sound impressive and make depression not seem to be such a big deal. I don’t see how this is gate keeping.
- slothtrop 5y ago
  > I don’t see how that is gatekeeping. Because you don't get to decide whether someone is clinically depressed.
  - Tarucho 5y ago
    And you don`t get to decide how others should react to someone else articles content. Whether I believe the article is full of shit or not is my choice and I can express it freely why not?
    - mbrodersen 5y ago
      Of course you can. And others can do the same to you.
- Karunamon 5y ago
  >this person was not really suffering that much. With all due respect, invalidating someone else's lived experience and telling someone that did something that worked for them that they shouldn't share it because it doesn't fit your definition of "suffering that much" is, quite literally, gatekeeping.

oblak 5y ago

If I had to summarize this article in one word, it'd be "dishonest". This is some naive teenage girl level shit and I am not buying it coming from an adult. Not to mention having html { opacity: 0; } on content that's already there. Thanks for sharing, I guess

ISL 5y ago

If you find yourself with the symptoms outlined in the article's "Going Upside Down", one need not invent a treatment plan from scratch. There are people who literally specialize in helping people with precisely these symptoms: therapists. Just as a physical-therapist can sometimes suggest an exercise that you'd never have thought of (That tingling in my fingers is related to a muscle in my back? What?), a good therapist will be able to help you navigate this rough spot in your life. As an action item, a therapist at lyrahealth.com has been a key part of helping me manage stress/life-changes/pandemic in recent months. Many employers offer mental-health consultation services through their health plans -- the employer only sees aggregate numbers, not your personal information. It is daunting to realize, "holy poops, I need a helping hand here". It is perhaps doubly-daunting to find a way over the hump to make the initial call/contact to a pro, but it is possible, and you can do it. There is a pretty good chance that someone at the other end can begin helping you work through life's challenges; they've already helped others in a similar situation. It can get better!

zebriez 5y ago

Hello. Author of the post here. Thanks everyone for reading and sharing thoughts. I expected responses would fall along these lines and I had my qualms about posting at all (which I mention in the piece). Ultimately, after lots and lots of feedback and contemplation, I decided that, on the balance, it would be probably be more helpful than hurtful to post. And I'm glad I did. To address the questions about whether it is fair, or accurate (whatever that means), to characterize my state as depression, I can say that 1/I was formally diagnosed by a clinician 2/ I was severely suicidal (though it would have require a close read to have picked that up) and 3/this clinician and I were seriously exploring hospitalization. My depression was and is not chronic. I am well-aware depression looks different for everyone and was clear about representing anyone else's experience in the post. I don't mean to be snarky, but I would hope that after all this time on the internet, encountering all kinds of people in all kinds of places, we might be able to grasp the diversity, variation, and nuance in the human experience. I think it's worth reflecting on whether or not you believe someone else's experience has to match your own in order to have validity. Most importantly, though, my heart goes out to any and all people who are hurting, in any way shape or form.

Tarucho 5y ago
> I don't mean to be snarky, but I would hope that after all this time on the internet, encountering all kinds of people in all kinds of places, we might be able to grasp the diversity, variation, and nuance in the human experience.
tailspin2019 5y ago
Thanks very much for sharing your experience. It will be appreciated by far many more people than those who take to the comments here. Ignore the naysayers :-) I'm inspired by the Post-It notes idea...
- zebriez 5y ago
  Thanks for saying that :)
mbrodersen 5y ago