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Electronic Voting has been proven to be untrustworthy. Increasingly complex systems featuring a mix of tokens and crypto have costs that exceed simple, human r

Electronic Voting has been proven to be untrustworthy. Increasingly complex systems featuring a mix of tokens and crypto have costs that exceed simple, human readable ballots and do not add any value. I can only conclude the driving force is to undermine democracy with what is basically a man in the middle attack. There is literally trillions of dollars in value there. Not exactly great for the disenfranchised. Vote by mail works and we should be using it.

throwntoday 5y ago
Vote by mail is an equally awful idea. We should instead not have a single day to vote and allow people to cast their votes over the course of a week or so, with legislation for employers to give employees at least one day off to vote. Voting in person is the most fool-proof way of maintaining some sense of democracy.
- HelloMcFly 5y ago
  > Vote by mail is an equally awful idea. Based on what evidence, exactly? We don't have to argue hypotheticals here - it's been working great across multiple states for many years. > We should instead not have a single day to vote and allow people to cast their votes over the course of a week or so, with legislation for employers to give employees at least one day off to vote. Love all of these ideas too.
  - throwntoday 5y ago
    There should be no doubt in anyones mind regarding the validity of results. Things like a national voter ID, and being in person except for the most extreme circumstances where someone cannot physically be there, ensures that. It's been working great most of the time but it should be a system that always works. We don't need to speak hypotheticals, the news is fraught with articles about people not receiving their ballots, being told they already voted by mail when they go in person, people double voting, voting in someone elses name, etc.
    - ddingus 5y ago
      Vote By Mail always works. Oregon has decades now, and it beats every other election method by every metric you can name. All it takes is a reasonable implementation, which Oregon did and has exported to other States who all have performed. The stuff you are talking about is last minute pandemic triggered fuckery and is not representative at all. There are great answers to every exception you put here. Want to vote in person? Go to an elections office and do that. Did not get a ballot? Same deal, and there is ample time available. Does not land on a single day. Were you coerced? Visit an elections office, get your vote sorted, report them, and they could end up in jail. Worried about mailing it in? Don't. You can use a collections box, or hand deliver. Did it count? Go online to see status, ballot received, votes will count. Go to an elections office to fix or recast ballot. Are you registered? Check online, register online, done. Or do in person. Auto registration happens for all citizens at the DMV. This had to ramp up, and a citizenship check had to get done, but all the people are done and we are just managing the usual churn. Worried about turnout? Oregon has great metrics. People have a couple weeks to get their votes cast and turned in somehow. Want to cast the right votes? No screens, no pressure, check your voter guide, research, check them off one by one at your leisure. Worried about process? The ballots have a chain of custody, can be hauled into court, and have for manual counts. Audits are performed against the optical scan machines. Physical voter intent records mean they can always be counted, checked, litigated, whatever the process demands. I can tell you we vote better and more often, even doing the little elections that happen because it is easy and robust. No vote challengers bullying people at the polls. No bullshit voter roll garbage. Everyone checks well in advance of elections. Anyone needing their record updated, party changed, whatever gets it quick and easy and one can call real people too. Almost nobody does, but there are people to call. Need help voting? Yup. Got that too. I did it a year or two for fun. You sign up and help voters however they need it. Can't see, can't read, whatever. A National ID does not get us there. The good stuff that makes elections run well happen at the State levels and below. Those are where all the trouble is. We have problem States. Those people there need to get behind something and lean on it, until their State runs better. Many States that do VBM will do what Oregon does and that is the Secretary of State is available to advise and share everything. There is no need for secrets.
- duped 5y ago
  To your second point, this is already the case
- ddingus 5y ago
  You should review how Oregon implemented it. Passes the Carter standards, and has been time tested, production proven here. I am fine with in person, however doing that actually performs worse given the mess most States have implemented.
- ddingus 5y ago
  And by the way, what does some sense of democracy mean? Really curious about you're thinking there.

throwntoday 5y ago

Vote by mail is an equally awful idea. We should instead not have a single day to vote and allow people to cast their votes over the course of a week or so, with legislation for employers to give employees at least one day off to vote. Voting in person is the most fool-proof way of maintaining some sense of democracy.

HelloMcFly 5y ago
> Vote by mail is an equally awful idea. Based on what evidence, exactly? We don't have to argue hypotheticals here - it's been working great across multiple states for many years. > We should instead not have a single day to vote and allow people to cast their votes over the course of a week or so, with legislation for employers to give employees at least one day off to vote. Love all of these ideas too.
- throwntoday 5y ago
  There should be no doubt in anyones mind regarding the validity of results. Things like a national voter ID, and being in person except for the most extreme circumstances where someone cannot physically be there, ensures that. It's been working great most of the time but it should be a system that always works. We don't need to speak hypotheticals, the news is fraught with articles about people not receiving their ballots, being told they already voted by mail when they go in person, people double voting, voting in someone elses name, etc.
  - ddingus 5y ago
    Vote By Mail always works. Oregon has decades now, and it beats every other election method by every metric you can name. All it takes is a reasonable implementation, which Oregon did and has exported to other States who all have performed. The stuff you are talking about is last minute pandemic triggered fuckery and is not representative at all. There are great answers to every exception you put here. Want to vote in person? Go to an elections office and do that. Did not get a ballot? Same deal, and there is ample time available. Does not land on a single day. Were you coerced? Visit an elections office, get your vote sorted, report them, and they could end up in jail. Worried about mailing it in? Don't. You can use a collections box, or hand deliver. Did it count? Go online to see status, ballot received, votes will count. Go to an elections office to fix or recast ballot. Are you registered? Check online, register online, done. Or do in person. Auto registration happens for all citizens at the DMV. This had to ramp up, and a citizenship check had to get done, but all the people are done and we are just managing the usual churn. Worried about turnout? Oregon has great metrics. People have a couple weeks to get their votes cast and turned in somehow. Want to cast the right votes? No screens, no pressure, check your voter guide, research, check them off one by one at your leisure. Worried about process? The ballots have a chain of custody, can be hauled into court, and have for manual counts. Audits are performed against the optical scan machines. Physical voter intent records mean they can always be counted, checked, litigated, whatever the process demands. I can tell you we vote better and more often, even doing the little elections that happen because it is easy and robust. No vote challengers bullying people at the polls. No bullshit voter roll garbage. Everyone checks well in advance of elections. Anyone needing their record updated, party changed, whatever gets it quick and easy and one can call real people too. Almost nobody does, but there are people to call. Need help voting? Yup. Got that too. I did it a year or two for fun. You sign up and help voters however they need it. Can't see, can't read, whatever. A National ID does not get us there. The good stuff that makes elections run well happen at the State levels and below. Those are where all the trouble is. We have problem States. Those people there need to get behind something and lean on it, until their State runs better. Many States that do VBM will do what Oregon does and that is the Secretary of State is available to advise and share everything. There is no need for secrets.
duped 5y ago
To your second point, this is already the case
ddingus 5y ago
You should review how Oregon implemented it. Passes the Carter standards, and has been time tested, production proven here. I am fine with in person, however doing that actually performs worse given the mess most States have implemented.
ddingus 5y ago
And by the way, what does some sense of democracy mean? Really curious about you're thinking there.