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That's a pretty harsh view. Let me try something else: the author notes that 6,000 people take their lives in the UK every year. That has a very substantial c

That's a pretty harsh view. Let me try something else: the author notes that 6,000 people take their lives in the UK every year. That has a very substantial cost, potentially measurable in many ways, but let's measure it in dollars. The US EPA uses a value of about 7 million dollars for a statistical life in 2006 dollars [1], or about 10 million 2021 dollars [2]. The cost of suicide in the UK in the aggregate is something like 6,000*10,000,000 dollars. That's a 60 billion dollar problem. Nearly every 60 billion dollar problem is worth caring about. Hypothetically, if you could spend $10 billion dollars to prevent all of those suicides, you would be generating a $50 billion dollar gain. It's worth at least asking of a "we need to talk about..." article how big the problem is (on some dimension, whether in dollars or otherwise). This one is quite large. [1] https://www.epa.gov/environmental-economics/mortality-risk-valuation https://www.epa.gov/environmental-economics/mortality-risk-v... [2] https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

woofcat 5y ago
>Suppose each person in a sample of 100,000 people were asked how much he or she would be willing to pay for a reduction in their individual risk of dying of 1 in 100,000, or 0.001%, over the next year. Since this reduction in risk would mean that we would expect one fewer death among the sample of 100,000 people over the next year on average, this is sometimes described as "one statistical life saved.” Now suppose that the average response to this hypothetical question was $100. Then the total dollar amount that the group would be willing to pay to save one statistical life in a year would be $100 per person × 100,000 people, or $10 million. This is what is meant by the "value of a statistical life.” Importantly, this is not an estimate of how much money any single individual or group would be willing to pay to prevent the certain death of any particular person. I think it's important to note that the value of a statistical life has nothing to do with actual value, or money provided into an economy. So it's not something that can be taxed against etc. So to me it's false statement to say "spend $10 billion dollars to prevent all of those suicides, you would be generating a $50 billion dollar gain." there is no _actual_ dollar gain. The gain is that the average mortality goes down by 0.001%.
- MauranKilom 5y ago
  > The gain is that the average mortality goes down by 0.001%. What made you come up with that nonsensical figure? Suicide is the leading cause of death in males under 45 in the UK. [0] And here's another tidbit [1]: > Eliminating suicide as a cause of death would have increased life expectancy at birth by 1.92 years for males and 1.36 years for females from 2011 to 2015 [in the US]. We can debate whether and how much reducing mortality helps society, but please don't pretend that suicide is in minor in the grand scheme of things. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_Kingdom [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31733510/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31733510/
  - woofcat 5y ago
    The figures were not for suicide specifically but from their source for generating the cost of a statistical life. I'm simply saying reducing mortality 0.001% doesn't equal 10 million dollars saved per 100,000 people as they somewhat implied. It's that society as a whole is perhaps willing to spend $10 million to reduce mortality 0.001%.
- huitzitziltzin 5y ago
  It’s not a false statement. You are correct that saving lives in this way doesn’t put money in anyone’s pocket. Nor can the value generated be taxed. However, it generates $50 billion relative to the actual state of the world in which there is a cost that large due to suicides.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    >However, it generates $50 billion relative to the actual state of the world in which there is a cost that large due to suicides. What does that mean? What if I say a life is worth 1 trillion dollars, of 1 google dollars? does that mean that if I save a life the world is 1 trillion dollars richer?
    - huitzitziltzin 5y ago
muuglay 5y ago
I'm not sure the 10 mil per life is correct. As a counter point value, a highway worker is $10,000.

woofcat 5y ago

>Suppose each person in a sample of 100,000 people were asked how much he or she would be willing to pay for a reduction in their individual risk of dying of 1 in 100,000, or 0.001%, over the next year. Since this reduction in risk would mean that we would expect one fewer death among the sample of 100,000 people over the next year on average, this is sometimes described as "one statistical life saved.” Now suppose that the average response to this hypothetical question was $100. Then the total dollar amount that the group would be willing to pay to save one statistical life in a year would be $100 per person × 100,000 people, or $10 million. This is what is meant by the "value of a statistical life.” Importantly, this is not an estimate of how much money any single individual or group would be willing to pay to prevent the certain death of any particular person. I think it's important to note that the value of a statistical life has nothing to do with actual value, or money provided into an economy. So it's not something that can be taxed against etc. So to me it's false statement to say "spend $10 billion dollars to prevent all of those suicides, you would be generating a $50 billion dollar gain." there is no _actual_ dollar gain. The gain is that the average mortality goes down by 0.001%.

MauranKilom 5y ago
> The gain is that the average mortality goes down by 0.001%. What made you come up with that nonsensical figure? Suicide is the leading cause of death in males under 45 in the UK. [0] And here's another tidbit [1]: > Eliminating suicide as a cause of death would have increased life expectancy at birth by 1.92 years for males and 1.36 years for females from 2011 to 2015 [in the US]. We can debate whether and how much reducing mortality helps society, but please don't pretend that suicide is in minor in the grand scheme of things. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_Kingdom [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31733510/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31733510/
- woofcat 5y ago
  The figures were not for suicide specifically but from their source for generating the cost of a statistical life. I'm simply saying reducing mortality 0.001% doesn't equal 10 million dollars saved per 100,000 people as they somewhat implied. It's that society as a whole is perhaps willing to spend $10 million to reduce mortality 0.001%.
huitzitziltzin 5y ago
It’s not a false statement. You are correct that saving lives in this way doesn’t put money in anyone’s pocket. Nor can the value generated be taxed. However, it generates $50 billion relative to the actual state of the world in which there is a cost that large due to suicides.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  >However, it generates $50 billion relative to the actual state of the world in which there is a cost that large due to suicides. What does that mean? What if I say a life is worth 1 trillion dollars, of 1 google dollars? does that mean that if I save a life the world is 1 trillion dollars richer?
  - huitzitziltzin 5y ago

muuglay 5y ago

I'm not sure the 10 mil per life is correct. As a counter point value, a highway worker is $10,000.