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I understand your point very well. The harm is real. I've seen first-hand old people being scammed out of their savings because someone hacked into their PC an

I understand your point very well. The harm is real. I've seen first-hand old people being scammed out of their savings because someone hacked into their PC and tricked them. But its a 'net benefit to society', its 'for the greater good', are just terms used to distance oneself from the underlying moral question. So lets make it more unpleasant and graphic. Keeping the same phrasing, let me re-write the original comment that I replied to. "Can't wait till 20 women get raped on the streets, which will finally force the city to police the streets more." I defer to your best judgement to see if this is something you can get behind. I don't see any way around the ethical issues. Physical/emotional harm and trauma is on equal footing to economic harm and trauma. In any case, I think this thread of conversation has run its course so I will just let you have the last word.

dredmorbius 5y ago
Again, I'm saying "this is how it has functioned" (with numerous citations). NOT "this is what I want". For some reason, despite my repeatedly telling you that your interepretation is incorrect, you persist in the false interpretation. Perhaps I need to find more effective nonverbal means of persuasion.... Though for now I'll point you to HN guidelines: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Seems you're transgressing all of these, if not also others. The goal I seek is a world of far more responsible addressing of risks. The most downtrodden don't even make good victims, in the sense of society, governments, and regulators addressing their conscerns. If there is to be hurt felt, it should be far nearer centres of power and wealth, not further. Where, if ever, have you seen the approach you advocate work? Even in, say, the case of reforms in child labour, workplace safety, an public health, it has only ever been in transferring pain to the privileged oligarchy, whether through strikes, lawsuits, protest, or open rebellion, that progress seems to be made. People are remarkably insensitive to the pains of others. I very much wish it weren't so, but wishing does nothing.

dredmorbius 5y ago

Again, I'm saying "this is how it has functioned" (with numerous citations). NOT "this is what I want". For some reason, despite my repeatedly telling you that your interepretation is incorrect, you persist in the false interpretation. Perhaps I need to find more effective nonverbal means of persuasion.... Though for now I'll point you to HN guidelines: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Seems you're transgressing all of these, if not also others. The goal I seek is a world of far more responsible addressing of risks. The most downtrodden don't even make good victims, in the sense of society, governments, and regulators addressing their conscerns. If there is to be hurt felt, it should be far nearer centres of power and wealth, not further. Where, if ever, have you seen the approach you advocate work? Even in, say, the case of reforms in child labour, workplace safety, an public health, it has only ever been in transferring pain to the privileged oligarchy, whether through strikes, lawsuits, protest, or open rebellion, that progress seems to be made. People are remarkably insensitive to the pains of others. I very much wish it weren't so, but wishing does nothing.