5 ms·

I know bikeshedding about names is discouraged, but in the case of signatures, isn't there a desire to evoke a "trust" feeling? It's hard to tie "cheap" to "tr

by tyingq 5y ago

I know bikeshedding about names is discouraged, but in the case of signatures, isn't there a desire to evoke a "trust" feeling? It's hard to tie "cheap" to "trust". Some other synonym like "eco" might project trust better.

tailspin2019 5y ago
In this case I think the bikeshedding is warranted. I agree, the name seems antithetical to the concept that the brand really needs to get across, of a solid, trustworthy organisation serving as a proxy for obtaining legally valid signatures. There’s nothing wrong with leading with the marketing message that this is a cheaper solution than the competition but the brand of the service still needs to evoke trust. Luckily it looks like they have a bit of time prior to launch to consider whether this is something they may want to change.
- karmakaze 5y ago
  Bikeshedding is never warranted, but this isn't bike shedding. Bikeshedding would be this name doesn't conform to pedantic reference A. The name going against the core value of a signature may be a simple observation but isn't a shallow one.
  - zenta 5y ago
    > Bikeshedding is... Frequently statements which start like this also, unintentionally, tend to be great examples of bikeshedding themselves.
    - karmakaze 5y ago
      My comment was to encourage commenting when there's a meaningful thing to say regardless if it seems like a bikeshedding pattern. These extra comments are noise and I don't even want to write this but note that we should avoid comments that don't have a positive purpose. Hopefully this one will lead to fewer of these.
  - tailspin2019 5y ago
    > Bikeshedding would be this name doesn't conform to pedantic reference A. This seems to be a rather self referential point :)
mig39 5y ago
Yeah, go for something like "quality signature" or something along those lines.
MichaelApproved 5y ago
I'll never understand using "cheap" for a company name, especially when people who require signatures are usually in very professional environments. - They're positioning themselves to always compete on price, not offerings. - It's professionally embarrassing to use a product named "cheap" anything. I have so much trouble recommending namecheap.com to my clients because of this. They're reliable and budget friendly but the word cheap makes them worry about trusting their domain name to them. - "Cheap" refers to price but it can also refer to quality. - I'd be surprised if lawyers weren't their #1 market and I can't imagine they'd be comfortable sending their clients to a "cheap" product. I'm sure they did market research to make it worth using the name. I'd love to hear their take on it. Who knows, maybe this domain name is only for the initial marketing rollout and the actual product will use a more professional domain name.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  I thought the same thing about SurveyMonkey, but here we are—it’s used everywhere, including for all kinds of SeriousBusiness™ use cases. I think if the product is really good enough, nobody cares what it is called. EDIT: Another example: NameCheap. Great service. Nobody cares that it has that in the name.
  - xeromal 5y ago
    Regarding SurveyMonkey, pretty sure they changed their name to Momentive a while back.
  - HatchedLake721 5y ago
    Different target personas. SurveyMonkey is using a fun name for boring surveys. NameCheap is positioning itself as the cheapest place to buy items that are already cheap. $5 at NameCheap vs $10 somewhere else. If you sign a legally binding document for a property or a business deal, the last thing you want to hear is "let's do it the cheap way and save $1.75".
- birdman3131 5y ago
  Discount tire is the best tire place I have dealt with hands down. I still have people look at me like I am nuts because of the name.
prepend 5y ago
I disagree and don’t think of cheap as being bad. If used honestly, I think it’s a good way of using accurate language to describe a brand. Sometimes a cheap burger or a cheap taco is the best. For signatures, I think this works. I don’t think I would skimp on important, non-commodity things. I think it’s funny and off putting when brands try to overestimate their importance. I don’t want a “signature experience” just like I don’t want to “invest” in a $5 domain name. Just be honest instead of pretending like everything is part of my identity.
- jacobr1 5y ago
  > For signatures, I think this works. I don’t think I would skimp on important, non-commodity things. But it doesn't really work for signatures. If I'm signing things related to my mortgage, or VC financing, or an affidavit or something, it isn't equivalent to "cheap taco," but rather something like "fancy fine dining." I'd be willing to pay a premium to ensure nothing goes wrong with the documents that will delay a closing process. And if I were a lawyer or similar professional, I think I'd also want to convey that premium image. I'm not buying a "signature experience," but I might be a buying house, where a want a "trusted transaction." Which is why I'm hiring a professional and not going DIY.
pkaler 5y ago
This looks like a Painted Door Test where the creator is testing the value proposition and the pricing. I suspect the next iteration of the product/company will have a different brand name.
NikolaNovak 5y ago
Unfortunately, 100% agree. When we signed purchase documents for our house, $2 for e-Signature was nowhere near the top 99% of costs/concerns :P. If our real estate agent sent us to "CheapSignatures.com", yea... we would've been uncomfortable. Irrational? Perhaps. Probably. But that's the gut reaction either way :|. If their aim is to capture potentially larger market of lower-revenue transactions, something like "StreamlinedSignatures" or "VerifiedSignatures" or as you say "EcoSignatures" would be much safer. Also, now I have to google what's "BikeShedding" :D
- Crosseye_Jack 5y ago
  I guess you have already Googled the term, but just incase anyone else who needs a definition. > Bikeshedding, also known as Parkinson's law of triviality, describes our tendency to devote a disproportionate amount of our time to menial and trivial matters while leaving important matters unattended.
hmrr 5y ago
It’s dangerous to compare any cost to trust. The two concepts are independent and do not overlap from experience. But at least do yourself a favour and find another merit to sell your product on that isn’t ”cheaper than the usual guys”
javajosh 5y ago
Agree, and I like "eco" - would add "frugal", "efficient", "wise". As a technologist, I would appreciate something more for less, like a record of of the signature's provenance.
Crosseye_Jack 5y ago
One of the best pieces of advice I got when I started my first business (A PC Repair business) was to use the term inexpensive instead of cheap for this reason.
- MichaelApproved 5y ago
  Budget friendly, low cost, entry level. All great alternatives to the word “cheap”.
  - Crosseye_Jack 5y ago
    Personally not a big fan of "entry level" esp when you are offering a service, comes with the feeling of inexperienced imo. The other 2 on the other hand, yeah, they seem fine to me.
the_arun 5y ago
Do you mean - if a company charges more dollars per signature, would you trust them more?

by tyingq 5y ago

tailspin2019 5y ago

In this case I think the bikeshedding is warranted. I agree, the name seems antithetical to the concept that the brand really needs to get across, of a solid, trustworthy organisation serving as a proxy for obtaining legally valid signatures. There’s nothing wrong with leading with the marketing message that this is a cheaper solution than the competition but the brand of the service still needs to evoke trust. Luckily it looks like they have a bit of time prior to launch to consider whether this is something they may want to change.

karmakaze 5y ago
Bikeshedding is never warranted, but this isn't bike shedding. Bikeshedding would be this name doesn't conform to pedantic reference A. The name going against the core value of a signature may be a simple observation but isn't a shallow one.
- zenta 5y ago
  > Bikeshedding is... Frequently statements which start like this also, unintentionally, tend to be great examples of bikeshedding themselves.
  - karmakaze 5y ago
    My comment was to encourage commenting when there's a meaningful thing to say regardless if it seems like a bikeshedding pattern. These extra comments are noise and I don't even want to write this but note that we should avoid comments that don't have a positive purpose. Hopefully this one will lead to fewer of these.
- tailspin2019 5y ago
  > Bikeshedding would be this name doesn't conform to pedantic reference A. This seems to be a rather self referential point :)

mig39 5y ago

Yeah, go for something like "quality signature" or something along those lines.

MichaelApproved 5y ago

I'll never understand using "cheap" for a company name, especially when people who require signatures are usually in very professional environments. - They're positioning themselves to always compete on price, not offerings. - It's professionally embarrassing to use a product named "cheap" anything. I have so much trouble recommending namecheap.com to my clients because of this. They're reliable and budget friendly but the word cheap makes them worry about trusting their domain name to them. - "Cheap" refers to price but it can also refer to quality. - I'd be surprised if lawyers weren't their #1 market and I can't imagine they'd be comfortable sending their clients to a "cheap" product. I'm sure they did market research to make it worth using the name. I'd love to hear their take on it. Who knows, maybe this domain name is only for the initial marketing rollout and the actual product will use a more professional domain name.

ryandrake 5y ago
I thought the same thing about SurveyMonkey, but here we are—it’s used everywhere, including for all kinds of SeriousBusiness™ use cases. I think if the product is really good enough, nobody cares what it is called. EDIT: Another example: NameCheap. Great service. Nobody cares that it has that in the name.
- xeromal 5y ago
  Regarding SurveyMonkey, pretty sure they changed their name to Momentive a while back.
- HatchedLake721 5y ago
  Different target personas. SurveyMonkey is using a fun name for boring surveys. NameCheap is positioning itself as the cheapest place to buy items that are already cheap. $5 at NameCheap vs $10 somewhere else. If you sign a legally binding document for a property or a business deal, the last thing you want to hear is "let's do it the cheap way and save $1.75".
birdman3131 5y ago
Discount tire is the best tire place I have dealt with hands down. I still have people look at me like I am nuts because of the name.

prepend 5y ago

I disagree and don’t think of cheap as being bad. If used honestly, I think it’s a good way of using accurate language to describe a brand. Sometimes a cheap burger or a cheap taco is the best. For signatures, I think this works. I don’t think I would skimp on important, non-commodity things. I think it’s funny and off putting when brands try to overestimate their importance. I don’t want a “signature experience” just like I don’t want to “invest” in a $5 domain name. Just be honest instead of pretending like everything is part of my identity.

jacobr1 5y ago
> For signatures, I think this works. I don’t think I would skimp on important, non-commodity things. But it doesn't really work for signatures. If I'm signing things related to my mortgage, or VC financing, or an affidavit or something, it isn't equivalent to "cheap taco," but rather something like "fancy fine dining." I'd be willing to pay a premium to ensure nothing goes wrong with the documents that will delay a closing process. And if I were a lawyer or similar professional, I think I'd also want to convey that premium image. I'm not buying a "signature experience," but I might be a buying house, where a want a "trusted transaction." Which is why I'm hiring a professional and not going DIY.

pkaler 5y ago

This looks like a Painted Door Test where the creator is testing the value proposition and the pricing. I suspect the next iteration of the product/company will have a different brand name.

NikolaNovak 5y ago

Unfortunately, 100% agree. When we signed purchase documents for our house, $2 for e-Signature was nowhere near the top 99% of costs/concerns :P. If our real estate agent sent us to "CheapSignatures.com", yea... we would've been uncomfortable. Irrational? Perhaps. Probably. But that's the gut reaction either way :|. If their aim is to capture potentially larger market of lower-revenue transactions, something like "StreamlinedSignatures" or "VerifiedSignatures" or as you say "EcoSignatures" would be much safer. Also, now I have to google what's "BikeShedding" :D

Crosseye_Jack 5y ago
I guess you have already Googled the term, but just incase anyone else who needs a definition. > Bikeshedding, also known as Parkinson's law of triviality, describes our tendency to devote a disproportionate amount of our time to menial and trivial matters while leaving important matters unattended.

hmrr 5y ago

It’s dangerous to compare any cost to trust. The two concepts are independent and do not overlap from experience. But at least do yourself a favour and find another merit to sell your product on that isn’t ”cheaper than the usual guys”

javajosh 5y ago

Agree, and I like "eco" - would add "frugal", "efficient", "wise". As a technologist, I would appreciate something more for less, like a record of of the signature's provenance.

Crosseye_Jack 5y ago

One of the best pieces of advice I got when I started my first business (A PC Repair business) was to use the term inexpensive instead of cheap for this reason.

MichaelApproved 5y ago
Budget friendly, low cost, entry level. All great alternatives to the word “cheap”.
- Crosseye_Jack 5y ago
  Personally not a big fan of "entry level" esp when you are offering a service, comes with the feeling of inexperienced imo. The other 2 on the other hand, yeah, they seem fine to me.

the_arun 5y ago

Do you mean - if a company charges more dollars per signature, would you trust them more?