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As a vegan myself this is very unfortunate because we are already easy targets and subject to a lot of prejudice. Impossible Meat bullying a small company might
by kaycebasques 5y ago
As a vegan myself this is very unfortunate because we are already easy targets and subject to a lot of prejudice. Impossible Meat bullying a small company might unleash a backlash of anti-vegan sentiment that can take on a life of its own. Make no mistake it has been there all along. Go back to other discussions about veganism here on HN and you will see the common anti-vegan memes. But when you're one of the leading brands of a minority movement like veganism you really need to make sure your PR is impeccable because your actions have broad-reaching effects beyond your business.
And to be 100% clear I am not being an apologist for Impossible. If they are indeed bullying and the case is as clear cut as this article describes then that is ugly behavior.
- jrm4 5y agoBlack person here. I don't think (though I'm not going to say I'm 100% certain) that the word "prejudice" is best here? You (very probably) made a choice to be a certain way, here. So, the "judice" part is correct, and people should perhaps be nicer, but this doesn't feel like the right word.
- kaycebasques 5y agoThank you for the feedback. I understand your point. I was going off a dictionary definition along these lines: > preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience But I totally get that prejudice has connotations here that make it inappropriate for me as a white man to use
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ghostbrainalpha 5y agoAbsurd. Have you heard of "religious prejudice"? That's prejudice and based off of a choice. Racial discrimination does not own the term prejudice.
- lotsofpulp 5y agoI cannot believe I am reading someone claim prejudice is a word that should not be used if you have a certain skin color. Did the judicial system stop dismissing cases with prejudice?
- ianmcgowan 5y agoDid the CIA stop terminating people "with extreme prejudice"?
- KSteffensen 5y agoWhy is it inappropriate for a white man to use the word prejudice? Isn't any sort of negatively biased opinion prejudice, regardless of what it's against be it gender, race, dietary choices, religion or anything else?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jrm4 5y agoI was definitely not saying "white people shouldn't use it." What I was saying is a little bit closer to - "Prejudice" connotes "identity" type issues, and I don't think 'veganism' is like that. (Once again -- CONNOTES -- for all the dictionary lovers out there)
- Causality1 5y agoA victim complex is a common response when privileged people realize others find them insufferable.
- s1artibartfast 5y agoA victim complex is a common response when anyone realizes others find them insufferable.
- havkd 5y agoThat’s an interesting argument when we are talking about blacks.
- sprite 5y agoThe word has nothing to do with whether you chose to be that way or not. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/prejudice https://www.dictionary.com/browse/prejudice
- jrm4 5y agoAccording to the dictionary, sure. What makes you think the "dictionary" is the end-all-be-all for how words work?
- MisterTea 5y ago> Black person here. No disrespect but what does being black have to do with the usage of the word prejudice? Because the parent you responded to used it correctly.
- kaycebasques 5y agoThere's a lot of connotations to that word related to racism. I have no problem with the original commenter calling out that it may not be the best word to use.
- MisterTea 5y ago> There's a lot of connotations to that word related to racism. It's use is not exclusive to racism. To exclude other uses is ironically prejudiced.
- jrm4 5y ago"Correctly" is weird, which is precisely why I tried state my point in a very non-conclusive way. Which went over like a lead balloon. :)
- dragonwriter 5y ago“prejudice” has nothing to do with whether the prejudgement is based on an innate feature or a choice.
- JCharante 5y agoIsn't religion a choice? I know plenty of people who have converted and they weren't forced to convert. You can be prejudiced against someone else of a differnet religion.
- jrm4 5y agoNot purely. The meaning of "religion" varies greatly across both time and space, and it would be difficult to argue that it is always (or even often) something like "pure choice." It frequently carries a cultural component such that the law sees fit to treat it like other arguably immutable identity type things, which seems correct to me. Though, it is complicated.
- djrogers 5y ago> The meaning of "religion" varies greatly across both time and space Ok, I was kinda sorta with you until the second time you decided on the ‘flexibility of words’ defense… honestly, if you’d just gone with: “using a charged term like prejudice to describe disagreement (even when distastefully communicated) over lifestyle choices dilutes the word, and minimizes what it means to someone who experiences true prejudice every day” or something like that, I think you’d have gotten your point across without the downvotes and discussion. But maybe that’s not what you meant, and maybe there would still be discussion because what I said ain’t necessarily true - it just sounds hard to argue with.
- jrm4 5y agoYou say that like the downvotes and discussion are a bad thing; I'm under no illusion about how people are going to take it about half the time I bring up race. Last I checked, I can't trade these hacker news points for cash and prizes. :)
- ncmncm 5y agoPlease don't ever stop. We need your voice here.
- Ensorceled 5y ago> Go back to other discussions about veganism here on HN and you will see the common anti-vegan memes. You will also see a lot of outlandish claims about veganism, human diet and health and, food in general which is generally where the backlash starts. I've seen claims like "humans have evolved to be vegan", "beef only has vitamin b12 because of b12 supplements", "if you eat properly, your body will generate it's own vitamin b12". You'll also see dismissive, no true Scotsman, responses to issues with vegan diets like struggles to get enough b12, calcium and iodine. I try to eat vegan, or at least vegetarian, a few days a week, mostly by eating traditionally vegetarian meals. Impossible meat is highly processed and is neither healthy nor a climate change solution.
- kaycebasques 5y agoI agree that some vegans also make outlandish claims but I think it's taking it too far to say that this is "generally where the backlash starts", because that implies that it's our fault / we caused it. There are a lot of vested interests that have purely selfish motives for attacking veganism and would do it regardless of any outlandish claims on the part of vegans.
- Ensorceled 5y ago> I agree that some vegans also make outlandish claims but I think it's taking it too far to say that this is "generally where the backlash starts", because that implies that it's our fault / we caused it. Sorry, if someone makes dangerous claims like "you'll generate your own b12 after switching to a whole food diet", it is their fault if they get dog piled and memed. There is anti-vegan prejudice on HN, I've seen it, but the real backlash is usually when the defence of the vegan philosophy gets outlandish.
- Alupis 5y ago> I agree that some vegans also make outlandish claims but I think it's taking it too far to say that this is "generally where the backlash starts", because that implies that it's our fault / we caused it. There's the old vegan joke for a reason: How do you know someone is a vegan? They'll tell you all about it... I think vegans get a bad rep because too often they feel the need to convert others to veganism too. Vegans aren't alone here, super devote religious people do this too, the guy in your office that just got into standing desks does it too, etc... When people make a choice they believe is the one true way to do something, it's difficult to see others not join in - after all, you feel you've made the choice because it's healthy/will save your life/save the planet/whatever, how could you just watch others harm themselves? Just live and let live... other people don't and shouldn't care if you choose to be a vegan or not. Not targeting you in particular... just general observations. The "as a vegan..." line is about as tired as the "as a libertarian I believe X..." line. Nobody cares what you are or believe.
- MisterTea 5y ago> But when you're one of the leading brands of a minority movement like veganism Neither you nor impossible foods speak for the vegan movement. Most of my vegan friends do not eat this fake garbage nor would they ever make foolish claims like this.
- kaycebasques 5y agoPoint taken that I and Impossible do not speak for the vegan movement. I think I could prove my point with a theoretical bet, however. Ask X amount of people from the overall general population to name the top 3 vegan brands, and I would take the wager that Impossible is in that top 3. Therefore they would be significantly identified with veganism at large.
- saghm 5y agoImpossible might be identified with veganism at large, but the converse is not necessarily true. I think that there are just few enough vegan brands that I'm aware of that when thinking about veganism at large, brands are not really at the top of my mind.
- technobabbler 5y agoAs another vegan, diet should have no bearing on this. It's a big company bullying a smaller one just because they can. The immorality of that doesn't depend on what you eat. If it bothers you, let Impossible Meat know: https://faq.impossiblefoods.com/hc/en-us/requests/new https://faq.impossiblefoods.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
- jjcon 5y agoAs someone who eats a primarily vegan diet I find the vegan community to be insufferably toxic. I'm not talking about individuals but the community itself is just one big dick measuring contest about who is 'more vegan' and suffers more due to their devotion. I don't fault others for seeing how gross the community can be.
- datavirtue 5y agoWhy would a vegan ever eat impossible meat? They generally abstain from processed foods.
- ncmncm 5y agoI tried it. It tasted too much like beef.
- cute_boi 5y agoWhy do people smoke cigarettes? Why do people drink soft drinks like coca cola which is full of sugars? I mean whats the point of asking these? Being vegan doesn't mean you have to eat healthy food 24x7. They are normal human being following ethics. And there is no rule that tells vegan should abstain processed foods.
- RandallBrown 5y agoI've seen lots of vegans eat highly processed foods like nut milks and cheeses, tofu, and even impossible and beyond meats.
- djrogers 5y agoCommmercial setain and tofu are highly processed foods as well, and common vegan fare…
- speeder 5y agoFirst, lets separate 2 groups of people: 1. People that have a vegan diet. 2. People that actively defend veganism. I have nothing against the group 1, but the prejudice you see, is because of group 2, I can say to you using rough napkin calculations that something like 95% of people I met in group two were total toxic assholes. Some examples of people I personally met: 1. Guy in school, kept telling me, CONSTANTLY, that I was eating corpses and whatnot, it was very annoying. 2. Another guy in school, told me I was evil because I ate meat, proceeded to rummage through my backpack and kick my belongings like if they were soccer balls (even screaming "goal" after he made my bible go between two chairs). 3. Chick I met in college, she asked me to become vegan, I told her I wouldn't and that I would keep eating bacon, her reaction was literally hit my head with her purse. 4. Various activist groups that did some insanely dumb shit where I live, one for example went to a research laboratory and freed all the animals, they took the cute animals (like beagles) home, and released the rest, without any notion if it was good idea or not to do so (several animals weren't native, and some were in the lab because they were being treated with experimental treatments for infectious diseases). 5. Random vegan I met online, dunno who that person is, I explained I have to eat meat due to a health condition, person then proceeded to tell me I should just die instead, that it was better for the planet for all people that need to eat meat to just die.