3 ms·

> We humans may be essentially biologically the same—with the same nutritional needs—as we were 300,000 years ago, but we are living in the 21st century. Off b

> We humans may be essentially biologically the same—with the same nutritional needs—as we were 300,000 years ago, but we are living in the 21st century. Off by at least an order of magnitude, possibly two - lactose tolerance developed a few thousand years ago at the latest. Even if you could know what cavemen ate, there's little guarantee it would be "optimal" (whatever that means) or even healthy. Humans change faster than we think.

saalweachter 5y ago
And evolved creatures are incomplete machines. We didn't just evolve to a diet from 300,000 or 30,000 or 3,000 years ago. We accumulated adaptations suited to all of those diets -- and genetic drift that made us unsuited to anything else -- and then our diet shifted and we began adapting to new foodstuffs instead. There's no factory default diet for us to reset to. It was always a moving target.
- deegles 5y ago
  > we began adapting to new foodstuffs This would only be true if groups of people who eat certain foods reproduce less than other groups. Otherwise you're thinking of Lamarckism[0]. With modern medicine, people can eat suboptimal diets their whole lives... [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckism
  - saalweachter 5y ago
    Of course how well an animal digests the food it is eating affects its survival and the survival of its offspring? If your tribe of anatomically modern homo sapiens sapiens moves to the sea shore for a thousand years because environmental changes have made your previous lifestyle impossible, mutations that correlate with shelf fish allergies are going to be highly disadvantageous, for instance. If wheat farming is all the rage, anyone who can digest gluten is going to have way more offspring than anyone who can't.
dividedbyzero 5y ago
These "caveman" diet fads are really weird. Lets say hunter-gatherers instead, that describes our collective deep past much better. Their respective diets are super varied and diverse, from almost exclusively meat in arctic climates to a wild mix of hundreds of species from different biomes in the Kalahari to basically pescatarian in some very maritime places. Then there's lifestyle – nutritional needs will vary greatly according to whether one routinely walks 20km a day, lives in the cold, or stares at a screen in airconditioned offices, and it's not just about calories, sometimes it's probably even a genetic thing – there seem to have been adaptations to an almost exclusively carnivorous diet. Replicating their diet wouldn't be great for most people. And on top of all that there's the ten-ish millennia of adaptation to agriculture and raising livestock that you mentioned. I don't think there is much to it save for some very general insights into how diets and the environment interact.
- alphanumeric0 5y ago
  Why wouldn't replicating hunter-gatherer diets be great for most people?
  - inawarminister 5y ago
    Indeed. Eat many plants, fruits, berries, and all the organs of animals (skip brains if you're afraid of CZD). Avoid wheat and cereals that much. Seems beer was a-okay though? Modern hunter gatherers do walk/jog for 7 to 9 hours a day, so... (At 3kph with occasional sprinting. Seems to be what our gait is optimised for to avoid injuries) [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724840190541X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472...
- agumonkey 5y ago
  In any case, I for one (biology/psychology might differ) is infinitely better when on a restricted diet with very active day. Everything falls into place naturally. I agree with not falling for shallow fads, but there's something to basic "natural" lifestyles.

saalweachter 5y ago

And evolved creatures are incomplete machines. We didn't just evolve to a diet from 300,000 or 30,000 or 3,000 years ago. We accumulated adaptations suited to all of those diets -- and genetic drift that made us unsuited to anything else -- and then our diet shifted and we began adapting to new foodstuffs instead. There's no factory default diet for us to reset to. It was always a moving target.

deegles 5y ago
> we began adapting to new foodstuffs This would only be true if groups of people who eat certain foods reproduce less than other groups. Otherwise you're thinking of Lamarckism[0]. With modern medicine, people can eat suboptimal diets their whole lives... [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckism
- saalweachter 5y ago
  Of course how well an animal digests the food it is eating affects its survival and the survival of its offspring? If your tribe of anatomically modern homo sapiens sapiens moves to the sea shore for a thousand years because environmental changes have made your previous lifestyle impossible, mutations that correlate with shelf fish allergies are going to be highly disadvantageous, for instance. If wheat farming is all the rage, anyone who can digest gluten is going to have way more offspring than anyone who can't.

dividedbyzero 5y ago

These "caveman" diet fads are really weird. Lets say hunter-gatherers instead, that describes our collective deep past much better. Their respective diets are super varied and diverse, from almost exclusively meat in arctic climates to a wild mix of hundreds of species from different biomes in the Kalahari to basically pescatarian in some very maritime places. Then there's lifestyle – nutritional needs will vary greatly according to whether one routinely walks 20km a day, lives in the cold, or stares at a screen in airconditioned offices, and it's not just about calories, sometimes it's probably even a genetic thing – there seem to have been adaptations to an almost exclusively carnivorous diet. Replicating their diet wouldn't be great for most people. And on top of all that there's the ten-ish millennia of adaptation to agriculture and raising livestock that you mentioned. I don't think there is much to it save for some very general insights into how diets and the environment interact.

alphanumeric0 5y ago
Why wouldn't replicating hunter-gatherer diets be great for most people?
- inawarminister 5y ago
  Indeed. Eat many plants, fruits, berries, and all the organs of animals (skip brains if you're afraid of CZD). Avoid wheat and cereals that much. Seems beer was a-okay though? Modern hunter gatherers do walk/jog for 7 to 9 hours a day, so... (At 3kph with occasional sprinting. Seems to be what our gait is optimised for to avoid injuries) [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724840190541X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472...
agumonkey 5y ago
In any case, I for one (biology/psychology might differ) is infinitely better when on a restricted diet with very active day. Everything falls into place naturally. I agree with not falling for shallow fads, but there's something to basic "natural" lifestyles.