6 ms·

Brexit is the gift that keeps on giving!

by PeterisP 5y ago

stronglikedan 5y ago
The path to the better destination is sometimes the bumpier path.
- bildung 5y ago
  If the path keeps being bumpy you probably took a wrong turn.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  I don’t know what power or leverage a country of 65 million thinks it has over the world. Companies / trading partners can simply ignore the UK now with few consequences. The UK has been on a long, slow decline of global relevance since the Victorian era. I don’t know why that would stop with Brexit.
  - nicky0 5y ago
    The point is it's now just another country on an equal footing with the rest. Unlike the EU members which have to ask the Commission for permission to scratch their ass.
    - wayoutthere 5y ago
      But they’re not on equal footing with the global superpowers — the EU has significant leverage by representing nearly a billion people. The UK had an outsized voice in EU politics, where now it’s just a small fish in an ocean of sharks. The UK is basically Mexico now. You saw how well their trade negotiations with the EU went; expect the US and China to walk all over them too.
      - throwaway2037 5y ago
        Zero trolling here. You wrote: <<representing nearly a billion people>> My rule of thumb is about 500M. (Google says 445M.) Where is the other 500M?
        wayoutthere 5y ago
        Was doing it off the top of my head; was off on the exact number but the sentiment holds. The main benefit of the UK has been that it was an English-speaking intermediary for US companies. The Netherlands and Germany are filling that role as basically every white collar worker speaks fluent English. The main power lever the UK has at this point on the global stage is the fact that its banks orchestrate and facilitate global money laundering at the intersection of corporations, organized crime and autocratic regimes. And is rapidly losing that role to crypto.
        hash9 5y ago
        > the EU ... has nearly a billion people More like under half billion (~447.0 million). >The UK is basically Mexico now Except it has a much bigger more advanced economy and a ton of other differences but carry on with the hyperbole. > The Netherlands and Germany are filling that role ... Just recently Royal Dutch Shell just switched headquarters to UK from NL, maybe there are some advantages then. > Was doing it off the top of my head Any more facts you want to come up with from the top of your head? I think I'll just disregard the rest of your facts then.
        throwaway2037 5y ago
        My reply is less harsh/dismissive than @hash9. Your last paragraph is powerful. I do think sometimes that I seriously underestimate the financial advantage that UK gains by having "selectively weak financial regulation" (my term). They are a like a Big Singapore, that pretends to be very well regulated, but looks the other way when autocrats want to buy 20M pound flats in Central London. I expect they will try to extend their advantage in the coming years by using "selective legislation" to encourage multinational corporations to re-home to the UK. See: Unilever and Shell. This is only the beginning in my view.
    - hexxagone 5y ago
      If you knew anything about the EU institutions, you would know that the Commission's role is only to enforce rules that member states have agreed upon but it has _no_ power. Of course facts do not fit with the Brexiters' rhetoric.
      - aembleton 5y ago
        Who instigates the creation of a directive? I thought that was one of the roles of the commission.
    - youngtaff 5y ago
      We're certainly not on an equal footing. Trade deals are about power and taking the one for the EU as example because we (UK) need access to their markets more than they need access to ours then they always had the leverage It'll be the same with US, China etc. Even in the trade deals we've achieved with countries like New Zealand we've not been able to take advantage of being a larger economy and we've allowed lamb imports just to get a deal
    - Bayart 5y ago
      Every region has been trying to consolidate international power blocks to specifically avoid having to deal on the back of Westphalian sovereignty alone, that is to not be on an equal footing.
  - belltaco 5y ago
    It won't stop, it will accelerate. UK had special deals in the EU plus outsized power.
- PeterisP 5y ago
  I understand part of the motivation for Brexit was to have the freedom to make independent choices for various laws. It makes sense in theory, however, if I look at the actual changes where UK has now diverged from EU laws like this one, those changes seem bad for the UK public (in order to benefit e.g. banks), and it turns out this freedom for politicians to do whatever they want somehow results in even less accountability to the interests of British public than the unelected unaccountable Brussels officials cut off by Brexit. Sad.
Teandw 5y ago
This is only affecting Amazon in this instance as it's caused by Amazon's tax avoidance schemes. If they weren't deep into tax avoidance schemes, this wouldn't have affected them. Not really due to Brexit. Nice attempt at pushing your agenda though.
- Carstairs 5y ago
  Yeah this is almost hilarious. One of the largest retailers in the world unable to continue with a tax avoidance scheme but clearly the bad thing here is brexit!
- aembleton 5y ago
  If Brexit didn't happen, then Amazon could continue with their tax avoidance. So, it is due to Brexit. As the poster said - it is the gift that keeps on giving.
cutler 5y ago
Amen. The great British public still have their heads in the sand in the wake of lorry driver shortages, nursing staff shortages and doctor shortages. You have to laugh or tear your hair out when the Home Office offers a 3-month reprieve hoping to lure exiled EU workers back to the UK.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  Brexit may not be helping matters, but it certainly isn't responsible for those shortages. Every western country is facing the same issues. Schools near me in (not UK) are struggling to feed students lunch because the companies they had contracted to deliver their food dont have enough drivers. One company a state over just cancelled their contract with nearly 60 rural schools because they simply aren't able to deliver.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    It helps if you say which country you're referring to. Maybe the USA? i.e. [1]. As far as I've heard, the EU doesn't have these problems. It's only the UK. (I can't speak all the languages, but I asked friends from Denmark, Germany, Portugal, Spain and Italy if they'd seen reports of shortages in supermarkets and restaurants, but none have.) The American problem looks fixable with vaccination, testing etc. A lot of drivers in Britain left the country, and there isn't a short-term fix. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/us/politics/schools-labor-supply-shortages.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/us/politics/schools-labor...
    - zdragnar 5y ago
      You should ask more people, the driver shortage in various EU countries has been pretty widely reported. For example, https://www.ft.com/content/e8ca2a08-308c-4324-8ed2-d788b074aa6c https://www.ft.com/content/e8ca2a08-308c-4324-8ed2-d788b074a...
      - Symbiote 5y ago
        I don't have an FT subscription. Driver shortages have been reported across the EU, but as far as I'm aware, food and fuel shortages are only in the UK. e.g. https://trans.info/en/there-s-a-europe-wide-hgv-driver-shortage-so-why-do-uk-supply-chains-seem-more-disrupted-254524 https://trans.info/en/there-s-a-europe-wide-hgv-driver-short...

Brexit is the gift that keeps on giving!

stronglikedan 5y ago

The path to the better destination is sometimes the bumpier path.

bildung 5y ago
If the path keeps being bumpy you probably took a wrong turn.
wayoutthere 5y ago
I don’t know what power or leverage a country of 65 million thinks it has over the world. Companies / trading partners can simply ignore the UK now with few consequences. The UK has been on a long, slow decline of global relevance since the Victorian era. I don’t know why that would stop with Brexit.
- nicky0 5y ago
  The point is it's now just another country on an equal footing with the rest. Unlike the EU members which have to ask the Commission for permission to scratch their ass.
  - wayoutthere 5y ago
    But they’re not on equal footing with the global superpowers — the EU has significant leverage by representing nearly a billion people. The UK had an outsized voice in EU politics, where now it’s just a small fish in an ocean of sharks. The UK is basically Mexico now. You saw how well their trade negotiations with the EU went; expect the US and China to walk all over them too.
    - throwaway2037 5y ago
      Zero trolling here. You wrote: <<representing nearly a billion people>> My rule of thumb is about 500M. (Google says 445M.) Where is the other 500M?
      - wayoutthere 5y ago
        Was doing it off the top of my head; was off on the exact number but the sentiment holds. The main benefit of the UK has been that it was an English-speaking intermediary for US companies. The Netherlands and Germany are filling that role as basically every white collar worker speaks fluent English. The main power lever the UK has at this point on the global stage is the fact that its banks orchestrate and facilitate global money laundering at the intersection of corporations, organized crime and autocratic regimes. And is rapidly losing that role to crypto.
        hash9 5y ago
        > the EU ... has nearly a billion people More like under half billion (~447.0 million). >The UK is basically Mexico now Except it has a much bigger more advanced economy and a ton of other differences but carry on with the hyperbole. > The Netherlands and Germany are filling that role ... Just recently Royal Dutch Shell just switched headquarters to UK from NL, maybe there are some advantages then. > Was doing it off the top of my head Any more facts you want to come up with from the top of your head? I think I'll just disregard the rest of your facts then.
        throwaway2037 5y ago
        My reply is less harsh/dismissive than @hash9. Your last paragraph is powerful. I do think sometimes that I seriously underestimate the financial advantage that UK gains by having "selectively weak financial regulation" (my term). They are a like a Big Singapore, that pretends to be very well regulated, but looks the other way when autocrats want to buy 20M pound flats in Central London. I expect they will try to extend their advantage in the coming years by using "selective legislation" to encourage multinational corporations to re-home to the UK. See: Unilever and Shell. This is only the beginning in my view.
  - hexxagone 5y ago
    If you knew anything about the EU institutions, you would know that the Commission's role is only to enforce rules that member states have agreed upon but it has _no_ power. Of course facts do not fit with the Brexiters' rhetoric.
    - aembleton 5y ago
      Who instigates the creation of a directive? I thought that was one of the roles of the commission.
  - youngtaff 5y ago
    We're certainly not on an equal footing. Trade deals are about power and taking the one for the EU as example because we (UK) need access to their markets more than they need access to ours then they always had the leverage It'll be the same with US, China etc. Even in the trade deals we've achieved with countries like New Zealand we've not been able to take advantage of being a larger economy and we've allowed lamb imports just to get a deal
  - Bayart 5y ago
    Every region has been trying to consolidate international power blocks to specifically avoid having to deal on the back of Westphalian sovereignty alone, that is to not be on an equal footing.
- belltaco 5y ago
  It won't stop, it will accelerate. UK had special deals in the EU plus outsized power.
PeterisP 5y ago
I understand part of the motivation for Brexit was to have the freedom to make independent choices for various laws. It makes sense in theory, however, if I look at the actual changes where UK has now diverged from EU laws like this one, those changes seem bad for the UK public (in order to benefit e.g. banks), and it turns out this freedom for politicians to do whatever they want somehow results in even less accountability to the interests of British public than the unelected unaccountable Brussels officials cut off by Brexit. Sad.

Teandw 5y ago

This is only affecting Amazon in this instance as it's caused by Amazon's tax avoidance schemes. If they weren't deep into tax avoidance schemes, this wouldn't have affected them. Not really due to Brexit. Nice attempt at pushing your agenda though.

Carstairs 5y ago
Yeah this is almost hilarious. One of the largest retailers in the world unable to continue with a tax avoidance scheme but clearly the bad thing here is brexit!
aembleton 5y ago
If Brexit didn't happen, then Amazon could continue with their tax avoidance. So, it is due to Brexit. As the poster said - it is the gift that keeps on giving.

cutler 5y ago

Amen. The great British public still have their heads in the sand in the wake of lorry driver shortages, nursing staff shortages and doctor shortages. You have to laugh or tear your hair out when the Home Office offers a 3-month reprieve hoping to lure exiled EU workers back to the UK.

zdragnar 5y ago
Brexit may not be helping matters, but it certainly isn't responsible for those shortages. Every western country is facing the same issues. Schools near me in (not UK) are struggling to feed students lunch because the companies they had contracted to deliver their food dont have enough drivers. One company a state over just cancelled their contract with nearly 60 rural schools because they simply aren't able to deliver.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  It helps if you say which country you're referring to. Maybe the USA? i.e. [1]. As far as I've heard, the EU doesn't have these problems. It's only the UK. (I can't speak all the languages, but I asked friends from Denmark, Germany, Portugal, Spain and Italy if they'd seen reports of shortages in supermarkets and restaurants, but none have.) The American problem looks fixable with vaccination, testing etc. A lot of drivers in Britain left the country, and there isn't a short-term fix. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/us/politics/schools-labor-supply-shortages.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/us/politics/schools-labor...
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    You should ask more people, the driver shortage in various EU countries has been pretty widely reported. For example, https://www.ft.com/content/e8ca2a08-308c-4324-8ed2-d788b074aa6c https://www.ft.com/content/e8ca2a08-308c-4324-8ed2-d788b074a...
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      I don't have an FT subscription. Driver shortages have been reported across the EU, but as far as I'm aware, food and fuel shortages are only in the UK. e.g. https://trans.info/en/there-s-a-europe-wide-hgv-driver-shortage-so-why-do-uk-supply-chains-seem-more-disrupted-254524 https://trans.info/en/there-s-a-europe-wide-hgv-driver-short...