4 ms·

I suspect the reviewer, and your comment, and probably the author, are wrong to broadly characterize burnout as something that we encounter as "achievement-subj

I suspect the reviewer, and your comment, and probably the author, are wrong to broadly characterize burnout as something that we encounter as "achievement-subjects" but not as "obedience-subjects", or as you put it, because we "strive for achievement." While some may burn out working too hard with the idea they will achieve by doing so, surely many others are burned out by being over-worked at a tough job, with an unsympathetic boss, a "death march" culture promising career advancement that never comes, and what-have-you.

emteycz 5y ago
Burnout also isn't limited to work, I got it from school.
- Damogran6 5y ago
  Just because you pay for the privilege, doesn’t mean it’s not a job.
  - seoulbran 5y ago
    Ding
  - the_af 5y ago
    You can get burned out at free public schools. Here in Argentina the best university is free and open to everyone -- and believe me, you can get very stressed because it's also very demanding.
  - InitialLastName 5y ago
    I've seen people burn out on volunteer work. Lots of institutions are carefully calibrated to extract as much effort from their constituents as the costs allow.
SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
That's an excellent point. I can feel burnout creeping in not because I'm pushing to achieve but just because of the stress required to tread water.
- abledon 5y ago
  you could reframe the situation and say you are 'treading water' in a position that requires constant 'achievements' whereas if you found an easier job, treading-water wouldn't be hard
dkarl 5y ago
There are a lot of unfortunate combinations. Trying to achieve in an obedience-oriented system causes depression, I'm convinced, whereas simple obedience can lead to a fairly stress-free life. In a company I'm familiar with that transitioned quickly from a nimble startup that rewarded high achievers to a bureaucratic beast that saw ICs as chess pieces to be moved around by managers, the early ICs who stayed and kept trying to achieve were afflicted with depression, anxiety, feelings of being gaslighted, and simultaneous contempt for and jealousy of "lazy" newer ICs who understood the new nature of the company and enjoyed comfortable and predictable employment.

emteycz 5y ago

Burnout also isn't limited to work, I got it from school.

Damogran6 5y ago
Just because you pay for the privilege, doesn’t mean it’s not a job.
- seoulbran 5y ago
  Ding
- the_af 5y ago
  You can get burned out at free public schools. Here in Argentina the best university is free and open to everyone -- and believe me, you can get very stressed because it's also very demanding.
- InitialLastName 5y ago
  I've seen people burn out on volunteer work. Lots of institutions are carefully calibrated to extract as much effort from their constituents as the costs allow.

SketchySeaBeast 5y ago

That's an excellent point. I can feel burnout creeping in not because I'm pushing to achieve but just because of the stress required to tread water.

abledon 5y ago
you could reframe the situation and say you are 'treading water' in a position that requires constant 'achievements' whereas if you found an easier job, treading-water wouldn't be hard

dkarl 5y ago

There are a lot of unfortunate combinations. Trying to achieve in an obedience-oriented system causes depression, I'm convinced, whereas simple obedience can lead to a fairly stress-free life. In a company I'm familiar with that transitioned quickly from a nimble startup that rewarded high achievers to a bureaucratic beast that saw ICs as chess pieces to be moved around by managers, the early ICs who stayed and kept trying to achieve were afflicted with depression, anxiety, feelings of being gaslighted, and simultaneous contempt for and jealousy of "lazy" newer ICs who understood the new nature of the company and enjoyed comfortable and predictable employment.