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That's absurd. You have no idea my circumstances or anyone who is loosing a job, you are putting people in mortal danger with your authoritarian wrong think.

by foxhop 5y ago

gryfft 5y ago
This is HN. Show us the numbers or be laughed off the stage. (Hint: you don't have the numbers because the vaccines work.)
- profeatur 5y ago
  I’d be less hesitant to take the vaccine if midwits weren’t so eager to convince me that science says what I know science cannot say.
  - gryfft 5y ago
    Well, be specific! What snake oil am I peddling? What magic claims do I have? "Vaccines work," and more specifically, "people who take the vaccine do not get as sick or spread the disease as much" are straight up _observations._ So... Science says that's "un-possible," hrm?
    - profeatur 5y ago
      There's a difference between "vaccines work," and the vaccine specifically developed for COVID works. Most of us who are skeptical of the second statement are not skeptical of the first. The snake oil is in the discourse.
      - gryfft 5y ago
        No, I said that we can simply and directly observe that those who receive the COVID vaccine ALMOST UNIVERSALLY do not wind up requiring hospitalization for COVID. This is "sky is blue" stuff. https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-hospitalizations-nonvaccinated https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-hospitalizations-non... Note my "communist left-winger" source. Let's go a step further! Here I'm linking an article whose headline will really stroke your confirmation bias: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-54-of-hospital-patients-with-virus-are-fully-vaccinated-1.4670229 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-54-of-hospital-... But if you read the actual article: > Some 72 per cent of all patients in ICU since late June had an underlying condition. Between April and August, there were 193 Covid-19 deaths. Of the 178 patients whose vaccination status was known, 30 were at least 14 days after receiving the final dose of vaccine. ... > “The rise in vaccinated patients in hospital is not a surprise as more and more people have been vaccinated,” said HSE chief clinical officer Dr Colm Henry. > Whereas in January up to 50 people ended up in hospital for every 1,000 Covid-19 cases, now fewer than 20 hospitalisations occur for the same number of cases. > “But for the vaccination programme, hospitals would have been overwhelmed,” Dr Henry said. I ask you again: where is the snake oil? And I'll tell you: your emotional attachment to being right and being proud of your bullshit-detection-kit is making you prone to a type ii error here. Reject the null hypothesis. The COVID vaccine obviously, patently, visibly, openly works. Take your tools of skepticism and apply them somewhere that isn't equivalent to parking in a fire lane during a fire.
        profeatur 5y ago
        Wittgenstein's ruler: Unless you have confidence in the ruler’s reliability, if you use a ruler to measure a table you may also be using the table to measure the ruler. The less you trust the ruler’s reliability, the more information you are getting about the ruler and the less about the table. There are too many political, economic, and social incentives involved in propagating this new vaccine to say anything about it with the least bit of certainty. The fact that so many are presenting such an uncertain topic with such certainty itself carries a signal. The only thing that will solve this uncertainty is time.
        gryfft 5y ago
        > There are too many political, economic, and social incentives involved in propagating this new vaccine to say anything about it with the least bit of certainty. Show your work. The argument, as you have made it, could apply to the CDC saying you shouldn't take lead supplements. You don't know who's pulling the strings of the CDC, therefore lead is good for you actually? You aren't pointing to anything contradicting the mountain of openly available evidence contradicting your position.
      - user-the-name 5y ago
        Yes, the main difference is that the COVID vaccines tend to work much better than many other vaccines.
user-the-name 5y ago
No, you are putting people in mortal danger. Do not try to "no you" this. You, specifically, are putting people at risk of actually dying. You are being massively reckless, and acting extremely un-christian since you are spreading lies about it.
- foxhop 5y ago
  Fake news, unvacinated people pose no inherent dangers. A person with the sars-cov-2 contagion spreads the virus. Unfortunately both vacinated and unvacinated people are at risk of contracting & spreading sars-cov-2, we have a staggering number of break through cases, even in highly vacinated areas. I am not a mortal danger to myself or anyone becuase I dont have sars-cov-2. this is the 5th endemic Corona virus. I AM healthy and strong. not sick, not unclean, not unhygenic, not uncaring, not part of the untouchable caste, I will not obey. people with the virus spread the virus, not any arbitrary list that the government keeps on injection status or religion.
rbanffy 5y ago
If you have a valid medical reason not to vaccinate, then you are exempt from the mandate. Otherwise, you put yourself and every person you interact with in danger, in special those who can't vaccinate for valid medical reasons. Right now, a large part of the hospital resources dedicated to COVID are being used on non-vaccinated, taking those resources away from others who don't have COVID but still need a hospital
- foxhop 5y ago
  Fake news, unvacinated people pose no inherent danger to anyone. A person with the sars-cov-2 contagion spreads the virus. Unfortunately both vacinated and unvacinated people are at risk of contracting spreading sars-cov-2, we have a staggering number of break through cases, even in highly vacinated areas. I am not a mortal danger to myself or anyone becuase I dont have the virus. this is the 5th endemic Corona virus. I AM healthy and strong. not sick, not unclean, not unhygenic, not uncaring, not part of the untouchable caste, I will not obey. people with the virus spread the virus, not any arbitrary list that the government keeps on injection status or religion.
  - long_time_gone 5y ago
    > people with the virus spread the virus, not any arbitrary list that the government keeps on injection status or religion. The virus doesn’t sent you an email to let you know you have it. Many people have it and spread it without even knowing. The best way to fight against that is through vaccination. The rest of your comment reads like you doing mental gymnastics to justify the stance you already dug in on months ago.
- gryfft 5y ago
  > Right now, a large part of the hospital resources dedicated to COVID are being used on non-vaccinated, taking those resources away from others who don't have COVID but still need a hospital This is the crux and the part of the argument they will never engage with. The unvaccinated make up the vast majority of those hospitalized, and the resources those people are consuming don't come from nowhere. Has anybody here tried to use medical services in America this year for non-COVID reasons? Medical staff are overworked. Clerical staff are tired and making mistakes. The quality of medical care has dropped, and it's the fault of the unvaccinated, full stop.

That's absurd. You have no idea my circumstances or anyone who is loosing a job, you are putting people in mortal danger with your authoritarian wrong think.

by foxhop 5y ago

That's absurd. You have no idea my circumstances or anyone who is loosing a job, you are putting people in mortal danger with your authoritarian wrong think.

gryfft 5y ago

This is HN. Show us the numbers or be laughed off the stage. (Hint: you don't have the numbers because the vaccines work.)

profeatur 5y ago
I’d be less hesitant to take the vaccine if midwits weren’t so eager to convince me that science says what I know science cannot say.
- gryfft 5y ago
  Well, be specific! What snake oil am I peddling? What magic claims do I have? "Vaccines work," and more specifically, "people who take the vaccine do not get as sick or spread the disease as much" are straight up _observations._ So... Science says that's "un-possible," hrm?
  - profeatur 5y ago
    There's a difference between "vaccines work," and the vaccine specifically developed for COVID works. Most of us who are skeptical of the second statement are not skeptical of the first. The snake oil is in the discourse.
    - gryfft 5y ago
      No, I said that we can simply and directly observe that those who receive the COVID vaccine ALMOST UNIVERSALLY do not wind up requiring hospitalization for COVID. This is "sky is blue" stuff. https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-hospitalizations-nonvaccinated https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-hospitalizations-non... Note my "communist left-winger" source. Let's go a step further! Here I'm linking an article whose headline will really stroke your confirmation bias: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-54-of-hospital-patients-with-virus-are-fully-vaccinated-1.4670229 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-54-of-hospital-... But if you read the actual article: > Some 72 per cent of all patients in ICU since late June had an underlying condition. Between April and August, there were 193 Covid-19 deaths. Of the 178 patients whose vaccination status was known, 30 were at least 14 days after receiving the final dose of vaccine. ... > “The rise in vaccinated patients in hospital is not a surprise as more and more people have been vaccinated,” said HSE chief clinical officer Dr Colm Henry. > Whereas in January up to 50 people ended up in hospital for every 1,000 Covid-19 cases, now fewer than 20 hospitalisations occur for the same number of cases. > “But for the vaccination programme, hospitals would have been overwhelmed,” Dr Henry said. I ask you again: where is the snake oil? And I'll tell you: your emotional attachment to being right and being proud of your bullshit-detection-kit is making you prone to a type ii error here. Reject the null hypothesis. The COVID vaccine obviously, patently, visibly, openly works. Take your tools of skepticism and apply them somewhere that isn't equivalent to parking in a fire lane during a fire.
      - profeatur 5y ago
        Wittgenstein's ruler: Unless you have confidence in the ruler’s reliability, if you use a ruler to measure a table you may also be using the table to measure the ruler. The less you trust the ruler’s reliability, the more information you are getting about the ruler and the less about the table. There are too many political, economic, and social incentives involved in propagating this new vaccine to say anything about it with the least bit of certainty. The fact that so many are presenting such an uncertain topic with such certainty itself carries a signal. The only thing that will solve this uncertainty is time.
        gryfft 5y ago
        > There are too many political, economic, and social incentives involved in propagating this new vaccine to say anything about it with the least bit of certainty. Show your work. The argument, as you have made it, could apply to the CDC saying you shouldn't take lead supplements. You don't know who's pulling the strings of the CDC, therefore lead is good for you actually? You aren't pointing to anything contradicting the mountain of openly available evidence contradicting your position.
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      Yes, the main difference is that the COVID vaccines tend to work much better than many other vaccines.

user-the-name 5y ago

No, you are putting people in mortal danger. Do not try to "no you" this. You, specifically, are putting people at risk of actually dying. You are being massively reckless, and acting extremely un-christian since you are spreading lies about it.

foxhop 5y ago
Fake news, unvacinated people pose no inherent dangers. A person with the sars-cov-2 contagion spreads the virus. Unfortunately both vacinated and unvacinated people are at risk of contracting & spreading sars-cov-2, we have a staggering number of break through cases, even in highly vacinated areas. I am not a mortal danger to myself or anyone becuase I dont have sars-cov-2. this is the 5th endemic Corona virus. I AM healthy and strong. not sick, not unclean, not unhygenic, not uncaring, not part of the untouchable caste, I will not obey. people with the virus spread the virus, not any arbitrary list that the government keeps on injection status or religion.

rbanffy 5y ago

If you have a valid medical reason not to vaccinate, then you are exempt from the mandate. Otherwise, you put yourself and every person you interact with in danger, in special those who can't vaccinate for valid medical reasons. Right now, a large part of the hospital resources dedicated to COVID are being used on non-vaccinated, taking those resources away from others who don't have COVID but still need a hospital

foxhop 5y ago
Fake news, unvacinated people pose no inherent danger to anyone. A person with the sars-cov-2 contagion spreads the virus. Unfortunately both vacinated and unvacinated people are at risk of contracting spreading sars-cov-2, we have a staggering number of break through cases, even in highly vacinated areas. I am not a mortal danger to myself or anyone becuase I dont have the virus. this is the 5th endemic Corona virus. I AM healthy and strong. not sick, not unclean, not unhygenic, not uncaring, not part of the untouchable caste, I will not obey. people with the virus spread the virus, not any arbitrary list that the government keeps on injection status or religion.
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  > people with the virus spread the virus, not any arbitrary list that the government keeps on injection status or religion. The virus doesn’t sent you an email to let you know you have it. Many people have it and spread it without even knowing. The best way to fight against that is through vaccination. The rest of your comment reads like you doing mental gymnastics to justify the stance you already dug in on months ago.
gryfft 5y ago
> Right now, a large part of the hospital resources dedicated to COVID are being used on non-vaccinated, taking those resources away from others who don't have COVID but still need a hospital This is the crux and the part of the argument they will never engage with. The unvaccinated make up the vast majority of those hospitalized, and the resources those people are consuming don't come from nowhere. Has anybody here tried to use medical services in America this year for non-COVID reasons? Medical staff are overworked. Clerical staff are tired and making mistakes. The quality of medical care has dropped, and it's the fault of the unvaccinated, full stop.