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Same with the UK subscription craft beer service, beer52.com [1]. Subscribe easily with a few clicks, but they make you call during office hours and endure 10+

Same with the UK subscription craft beer service, beer52.com [1]. Subscribe easily with a few clicks, but they make you call during office hours and endure 10+ minutes on hold to cancel. Sadly in the UK I guess we won't get the benefit of any new EU legislation to address this. [1] https://ibb.co/r4LfK5F https://ibb.co/r4LfK5F

sodality2 5y ago
Sometimes I wonder what little things differ between countries. But this is new to me. Is it true that you find that hold time to be annoying/out of place in the UK? I once was on hold with an insurance company for ten hours... I began to wonder if 1. something happened that got me stuck in the queue, or 2. if they even had a single person working the lines.
- ookware 5y ago
  Not OP but also from the UK. Whilst a 10 minute hold time isn't too unusual for large companies, especially if you call at a busy time like midday when everyone takes a lunch break, anything over 20 minutes would certainly warrant complaining about to anyone unfortunate enough to ask how your day is going. A big selling point for companies for a while was quick answering of calls. My bank has genuinely answered faster than 999 (our 911 equivalent) on occasion. Although during COVID hold times have gone up dramatically for some reason.
bodge5000 5y ago
This is the FTC, not the EU (as far as I'm aware theres no EU legislation planned or in place for this). Of course you could argue that the EU might do it one day, but you could say the same about the UK. That being said I thought it already was against UK law. Maybe I got that wrong, or there are loopholes around it, or its just not heavily enforced. Who knows
- kuschku 5y ago
  The EU regulation on this was already passed several years ago, and is already enforced in some countries, it should be universally enforced by the end of the year.
  - rlpb 5y ago
    Any chance of a reference here please? I've been unable to find the law (in my case the UK, but an EU regulation reference would help) which enacts this, and I'm dealing with a dispute at the moment where this would be helpful.
    - abainbridge 5y ago
      I can't find anything about the EU implementing this. Here is a UK document from July 2021 discussing why the UK might want to do it, and thus implying that it hadn't yet - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1004038/rccp-subscriptions-traps-ia.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
  - bodge5000 5y ago
    Usually Germany is pretty snappy on enforcing EU regulations, but at least in this case it would appear not as I've heard Germans more than any other EU national complaining about this issue in particular. Again though, maybe there are loopholes (just look at GDPR, or to an extent even TPD). Do you have a regulation reference by any chance?
    - kuschku 5y ago
      It was implemented in German law via Gesetzesänderung des § 309 Nr. 13 BGB vom 1. Oktober 2016 See the news stories about it: https://www.pcwelt.de/news/Ab-1.10.-Kunden-duerfen-Online-Vertraege-online-kuendigen-10050966.html https://www.pcwelt.de/news/Ab-1.10.-Kunden-duerfen-Online-Ve...
ChrisRR 5y ago
I thought of beer52 too, but not because I was thinking of cancelling (I quite like beer52) But because they offered a free month to wine52. Easy to sign up, phone up to cancel
ookware 5y ago
When I had an account with Beer52 I them and said, effectively, "This is my notice to cancel and the main motivation to cancel is because of anti-consumer behaviour like having to call to cancel. I do not authorise any further payments and any payments you do take will be subject to a dispute with my credit card company". To their credit they did send me a reply saying my account had been cancelled and I never spoke to anyone on the phone.
- frosted-flakes 5y ago
  How did you contact them, email?
mrmattyboy 5y ago
Hah, literally saw the title of the post and came to comments to find beer52 (after dealing with them over a year ago)... must say something about a company. But I immediately cancelled with card after I tried to cancel the subscription. I misread that and thought I'd cancelled, then got stung with a bill, but they didn't send as they couldn't take payment. So I retried to cancel and realised what had happened... I think the most annoying bit that that you can _try_ to cancel on their site and then, after answering several questions (are you sure if we offer X or Y), several pages later, they tell you that you need to call them (IIRC the wording if you skim read it almost makes it sound like you _have_ unsubscribed. For a 'hip' beer company, I was surprised at how baroque it seemed.. I refuse to recommend them to ANYONE, even though I actually quite liked the beer.

sodality2 5y ago

Sometimes I wonder what little things differ between countries. But this is new to me. Is it true that you find that hold time to be annoying/out of place in the UK? I once was on hold with an insurance company for ten hours... I began to wonder if 1. something happened that got me stuck in the queue, or 2. if they even had a single person working the lines.

ookware 5y ago
Not OP but also from the UK. Whilst a 10 minute hold time isn't too unusual for large companies, especially if you call at a busy time like midday when everyone takes a lunch break, anything over 20 minutes would certainly warrant complaining about to anyone unfortunate enough to ask how your day is going. A big selling point for companies for a while was quick answering of calls. My bank has genuinely answered faster than 999 (our 911 equivalent) on occasion. Although during COVID hold times have gone up dramatically for some reason.

bodge5000 5y ago

This is the FTC, not the EU (as far as I'm aware theres no EU legislation planned or in place for this). Of course you could argue that the EU might do it one day, but you could say the same about the UK. That being said I thought it already was against UK law. Maybe I got that wrong, or there are loopholes around it, or its just not heavily enforced. Who knows

kuschku 5y ago
The EU regulation on this was already passed several years ago, and is already enforced in some countries, it should be universally enforced by the end of the year.
- rlpb 5y ago
  Any chance of a reference here please? I've been unable to find the law (in my case the UK, but an EU regulation reference would help) which enacts this, and I'm dealing with a dispute at the moment where this would be helpful.
  - abainbridge 5y ago
    I can't find anything about the EU implementing this. Here is a UK document from July 2021 discussing why the UK might want to do it, and thus implying that it hadn't yet - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1004038/rccp-subscriptions-traps-ia.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
- bodge5000 5y ago
  Usually Germany is pretty snappy on enforcing EU regulations, but at least in this case it would appear not as I've heard Germans more than any other EU national complaining about this issue in particular. Again though, maybe there are loopholes (just look at GDPR, or to an extent even TPD). Do you have a regulation reference by any chance?
  - kuschku 5y ago
    It was implemented in German law via Gesetzesänderung des § 309 Nr. 13 BGB vom 1. Oktober 2016 See the news stories about it: https://www.pcwelt.de/news/Ab-1.10.-Kunden-duerfen-Online-Vertraege-online-kuendigen-10050966.html https://www.pcwelt.de/news/Ab-1.10.-Kunden-duerfen-Online-Ve...

ChrisRR 5y ago

I thought of beer52 too, but not because I was thinking of cancelling (I quite like beer52) But because they offered a free month to wine52. Easy to sign up, phone up to cancel

ookware 5y ago

When I had an account with Beer52 I them and said, effectively, "This is my notice to cancel and the main motivation to cancel is because of anti-consumer behaviour like having to call to cancel. I do not authorise any further payments and any payments you do take will be subject to a dispute with my credit card company". To their credit they did send me a reply saying my account had been cancelled and I never spoke to anyone on the phone.

frosted-flakes 5y ago
How did you contact them, email?

mrmattyboy 5y ago

Hah, literally saw the title of the post and came to comments to find beer52 (after dealing with them over a year ago)... must say something about a company. But I immediately cancelled with card after I tried to cancel the subscription. I misread that and thought I'd cancelled, then got stung with a bill, but they didn't send as they couldn't take payment. So I retried to cancel and realised what had happened... I think the most annoying bit that that you can _try_ to cancel on their site and then, after answering several questions (are you sure if we offer X or Y), several pages later, they tell you that you need to call them (IIRC the wording if you skim read it almost makes it sound like you _have_ unsubscribed. For a 'hip' beer company, I was surprised at how baroque it seemed.. I refuse to recommend them to ANYONE, even though I actually quite liked the beer.