5 ms·

Speak for yourself. Dont use the word 'we'. "We" dont strive for achievement. There is a small group with certain specific biological and psychological traits

by opx9 5y ago

Speak for yourself. Dont use the word 'we'. "We" dont strive for achievement. There is a small group with certain specific biological and psychological traits that does. Their energy and drive gets the whole chimp troupe stampeding in one direction or another. These biological, personality traits aren't going to be stripped out of the human population any time soon. So you just have to recognize who you are and who you choose to deal with so you dont get stuck in traps. Learning takes Time.

hellbannedguy 5y ago
Those people usually have a sympathetic wealthy dad too. It's not real easy to be a maverick when you are barely getting by, and have 0 safety net. Those two meathead sons of the president come to mind. And every financially successful kid in my high school, and college, had a ton of unspoken family help. I clench up when I hear these Type A traits are biological.
tuyguntn 5y ago
I think parent OP used "we" very much correctly, don't try to isolate some people's impact on society. We all enjoyed when Jeff Bezos delivered our products faster to our homes. We enjoyed when our food is delivered from any restaurant we asked, we enjoyed traveling to other places and generating CO2 along the way. And do you know why we enjoyed them? Because those people who strive for achievements worked really hard to create these conveniences for us, for some of them there was no personal life, working nights, no family, just career! And they achieved what they wanted. Now they demand from everyone such dedication. Hence some companies (employees to be exact) are creating hidden rules not to promote people with kids, because at some point they might not be as productive as 21 years who just graduated, with lots of energy to burn and cheap to employ. People don't want to have kids because they might distract from their career. Now our society has problems, pollution, low wages, homelessness, burned out people, because not everyone can perform on their peers level without kids, without personal life and so on And "we" who don't strive for achievement didn't stop them.
- saiya-jin 5y ago
  You are twisting words quite a bit. I very much belong to 'the other' tribe of not giving a nanofraction of a fuck about some of these 'achievements' pushed on us, done by people who don't get the concept and urgency of work-life balance. No amazon prime deliveries? In fact, no Amazon deliveries in Switzerland that make any sense? We get by just fine. We don't order food from restaurants, it negates the very reason why to go to restaurant in the first place, the social experience is just not there. I can cook +-comparably well and actually enjoy the process. And so on. I have myself mapped extremely well thanks to long term involvement with some extreme sports, backpacking around the globe and few times use of psilocybin in the right setting. I know exactly what makes me tick and what is superficial shallow BS, and what you describe is right there. Again, achievements you describe as some holy grail of mankind mean next to nothing. My wife is a doctor, exactly same story - she can tell you all evening about true respectable achievements, and none of it is about some engineer figuring slightly more effective way for business to deliver. And don't drag the topic into 'you didn't stop this from happening!' - we are adults, and responsible for our own development and life paths. Don't expect me or anybody else to babysit you and set your life straight to get happy and fulfilled life. If you won't, no guidebook nor internet course, nor aging itself will. Get your own shit together and do it yourself to be more precise.
  - freshpots 5y ago
    The lack of self-awareness in this screed is remarkable. Stay woke and better than the 'other' oh enlightened one.
  - beardedwizard 5y ago
    So you did extreme sports and drugs and figured out life better than everyone else? To the point where you would tell everyone else to "get your own shit together"? I thought mushrooms dissolved ego, but what you are saying strikes me as filled with ego.
    - bodge5000 5y ago
      > I thought mushrooms dissolved ego, but what you are saying strikes me as filled with ego This is the case with everyone I've ever talked to about this. If anything it seems to be an ego boost more than an ego death, though I doubt thats as much the mushrooms as much as it is the person
sirodoht 5y ago
Hey opx9, I do apologise if my use of the word "we" caused anger. At the same time I'm happy you took the time to respond—it seems you're passionate about this point so I want to know more. Why do you say it's a small group? It seems to me it's a pretty large group across the West. Then, you claim it's biological traits. Does that mean everybody has them? Finally, what's the alternative? How could one get unstuck? Or maybe a better question would be: what are the traits of those that are not part of the group that has these traits?
- jseban 5y ago
  The way I see it, is that it's good to have diversity and not push too hard on a norm that doesn't suit everyone, and it's not a solution to attack the norm and swing the pendulum in the other direction, because that will probably do equally much damage, just to a different group of people. Striving for achievement is not bad, but striving for conformity and validation from peer pressure and norms, is bad.
- temp8964 5y ago
  > Then, you claim it's biological traits. Does that mean everybody has them? I don't understand your logic. If I say someone has the biological trait being very tall, apparently it means NOT everybody has it.
  - stronglikedan 5y ago
    I don't understand your logic. OP was asking a question, which you answered. Questions are merely requests for logical explanations, and therefore, not always logical themselves.
  - sirodoht 5y ago
    Ah interesting point. I meant it more like: height is a trait, some are tall, others short. I see what you mean though. I guess that might also be how opx9 meant it.

by opx9 5y ago

hellbannedguy 5y ago

Those people usually have a sympathetic wealthy dad too. It's not real easy to be a maverick when you are barely getting by, and have 0 safety net. Those two meathead sons of the president come to mind. And every financially successful kid in my high school, and college, had a ton of unspoken family help. I clench up when I hear these Type A traits are biological.

tuyguntn 5y ago

I think parent OP used "we" very much correctly, don't try to isolate some people's impact on society. We all enjoyed when Jeff Bezos delivered our products faster to our homes. We enjoyed when our food is delivered from any restaurant we asked, we enjoyed traveling to other places and generating CO2 along the way. And do you know why we enjoyed them? Because those people who strive for achievements worked really hard to create these conveniences for us, for some of them there was no personal life, working nights, no family, just career! And they achieved what they wanted. Now they demand from everyone such dedication. Hence some companies (employees to be exact) are creating hidden rules not to promote people with kids, because at some point they might not be as productive as 21 years who just graduated, with lots of energy to burn and cheap to employ. People don't want to have kids because they might distract from their career. Now our society has problems, pollution, low wages, homelessness, burned out people, because not everyone can perform on their peers level without kids, without personal life and so on And "we" who don't strive for achievement didn't stop them.

saiya-jin 5y ago
You are twisting words quite a bit. I very much belong to 'the other' tribe of not giving a nanofraction of a fuck about some of these 'achievements' pushed on us, done by people who don't get the concept and urgency of work-life balance. No amazon prime deliveries? In fact, no Amazon deliveries in Switzerland that make any sense? We get by just fine. We don't order food from restaurants, it negates the very reason why to go to restaurant in the first place, the social experience is just not there. I can cook +-comparably well and actually enjoy the process. And so on. I have myself mapped extremely well thanks to long term involvement with some extreme sports, backpacking around the globe and few times use of psilocybin in the right setting. I know exactly what makes me tick and what is superficial shallow BS, and what you describe is right there. Again, achievements you describe as some holy grail of mankind mean next to nothing. My wife is a doctor, exactly same story - she can tell you all evening about true respectable achievements, and none of it is about some engineer figuring slightly more effective way for business to deliver. And don't drag the topic into 'you didn't stop this from happening!' - we are adults, and responsible for our own development and life paths. Don't expect me or anybody else to babysit you and set your life straight to get happy and fulfilled life. If you won't, no guidebook nor internet course, nor aging itself will. Get your own shit together and do it yourself to be more precise.
- freshpots 5y ago
  The lack of self-awareness in this screed is remarkable. Stay woke and better than the 'other' oh enlightened one.
- beardedwizard 5y ago
  So you did extreme sports and drugs and figured out life better than everyone else? To the point where you would tell everyone else to "get your own shit together"? I thought mushrooms dissolved ego, but what you are saying strikes me as filled with ego.
  - bodge5000 5y ago
    > I thought mushrooms dissolved ego, but what you are saying strikes me as filled with ego This is the case with everyone I've ever talked to about this. If anything it seems to be an ego boost more than an ego death, though I doubt thats as much the mushrooms as much as it is the person

sirodoht 5y ago

Hey opx9, I do apologise if my use of the word "we" caused anger. At the same time I'm happy you took the time to respond—it seems you're passionate about this point so I want to know more. Why do you say it's a small group? It seems to me it's a pretty large group across the West. Then, you claim it's biological traits. Does that mean everybody has them? Finally, what's the alternative? How could one get unstuck? Or maybe a better question would be: what are the traits of those that are not part of the group that has these traits?

jseban 5y ago
The way I see it, is that it's good to have diversity and not push too hard on a norm that doesn't suit everyone, and it's not a solution to attack the norm and swing the pendulum in the other direction, because that will probably do equally much damage, just to a different group of people. Striving for achievement is not bad, but striving for conformity and validation from peer pressure and norms, is bad.
temp8964 5y ago
> Then, you claim it's biological traits. Does that mean everybody has them? I don't understand your logic. If I say someone has the biological trait being very tall, apparently it means NOT everybody has it.
- stronglikedan 5y ago
  I don't understand your logic. OP was asking a question, which you answered. Questions are merely requests for logical explanations, and therefore, not always logical themselves.
- sirodoht 5y ago
  Ah interesting point. I meant it more like: height is a trait, some are tall, others short. I see what you mean though. I guess that might also be how opx9 meant it.