5 ms·

It was a fun read, but implying that a drug dealer from Kern county is related to a published researcher from Mexico just because they have the same surname is

It was a fun read, but implying that a drug dealer from Kern county is related to a published researcher from Mexico just because they have the same surname is not really cool.

comicjk 5y ago
I agree. I wonder, though - the author has written a lot about political signaling and trust. I wouldn't put it past him to add a joke that's deliberately anathema to liberals, in order to relax the hackles of the conservatives he's trying to convince to use real medicine.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Why do you think the joke could be joke could be viewed as anathema to liberals in particular? I was trying to dissect this comment and couldn't figure out the political angle.
  - comicjk 5y ago
    It's not liberal vs conservative in a policy sense, but in a cultural sense, much more important for signaling. I think many liberals (I include myself) would say it's racially tinged to joke that a doctor and a drug dealer must be related because they have the same Spanish name.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      I see, so it separates the people that assume that it is an example of racial profiling because there is a POC involved? Is the assumption that the person being mocked is singled out because of their Spanish last name.
      - comicjk 5y ago
        Something like that, sure. Apart from the question of whether the joke is good or bad, I think it's pretty clear from the reactions here that it has a political valence.
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        I agree that is strong point that such comments trigger some readers. I imagine that any politically savvy author like this one evaluates the inclusion of jokes involving POC in their editing process today. As far as intent, I am more inclined to believe the author decided to leave it intentionally, not to endear the conservative reader, but because they believe that while some readers may be offended, that they didn't want to engage in self censorship when they personally didn't see anything objectionable. After all, I think the conservative reader would gloss over this as unremarkable, and only some liberal readers would hear it as a "dog whistle", so they aren't endearing anyone. I think this is inline with some of the author's other writings which advocate taking responsibility for one's actions and intentions, but not necessarily catering to everyone else's possible reactions and emotions. That said, I'm usually assume pretty charitable intentions as a reader when it comes to this sort of thing, so I have my own biases.
        low_tech_love 5y ago
        The point remains that he singled out a latin-american surname in order to google and look for criminals to relate to. That means he expected to find something, and did. Would he think to do the same with an european surname? And more importantly, would it still sound cool and funny to his audience?
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        OK, so it all comes down to assumptions. I honestly assumed he found the tweet when looking the researcher, and would have made the same joke if the name were Mike Smith. I didn't think the joke was especially entertaining, and don't see it being any more or less cool or funny with a Spanish name. I could see how if the exact opposite were true, it could be racist.
shkkmo 5y ago
It is pretty cringy. I believe the implication is that the study was so poorly performed and produced such outlandish results that the researchers had to be high on drugs or something...
s1artibartfast 5y ago
I think you missed the point of the comparison. It wasn't a real claim that they are literally the same person. It was a joke that that the study was so suspicious and potentially fraudulent that the author could be a criminal drug dealer...
- low_tech_love 5y ago
  Sure it’s a joke. A very bad, tasteless, and racist joke. I get it!
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    How is it racist? Is any joke that targets a POC racist even if there is no racial content or nature to the joke?
    - low_tech_love 5y ago
      I’m not in the mood to give a lecture on how the real racism is between the lines, if you can’t see it, good for you. The entire article is condescending against research done outside the main european/north-american axis, using words like “Egyptian” and “Mexican” to set the tone of the comments, as if to say “you know what to expect from these people”. There is absolutely no reason to connect the researcher and the criminal like he did other than prejudice. Surely I can find a criminal in the USA with your surname, but I bet you wouldn’t find it funny if I publicly implied you were related, or even worse, that you were connected to their crimes.
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        >The entire article is condescending against research done outside the main european/north-american axis, using words like “Egyptian” and “Mexican” to set the tone of the comments, as if to say “you know what to expect from these people”. I agree that the article is condescending/skeptical of studies outside the european/north-american axis. I don't think the driver is a belief that brown people can't do science, but that medical research coming from these countries is generally lower quality and less likely to be replicable. The latter is a commonly held belief in the medical research community, which has a basis in reality. >There is absolutely no reason to connect the researcher and the criminal like he did other than prejudice. The alternate reason is given at length in the three paragraphs above. Of all the studies, this one is the most likely to be deliberate fraud. The comparison of the joke is demeaning and is intended to be disparaging. The insinuation is that Espitia-Hernandez the doctor is as trustworthy as Espitia-Hernandez the drug dealer, not because they are both Mexican or family, but because Espitia-Hernandez the doctor is a liar and a fraudster.

It was a fun read, but implying that a drug dealer from Kern county is related to a published researcher from Mexico just because they have the same surname is not really cool.

comicjk 5y ago

I agree. I wonder, though - the author has written a lot about political signaling and trust. I wouldn't put it past him to add a joke that's deliberately anathema to liberals, in order to relax the hackles of the conservatives he's trying to convince to use real medicine.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
Why do you think the joke could be joke could be viewed as anathema to liberals in particular? I was trying to dissect this comment and couldn't figure out the political angle.
- comicjk 5y ago
  It's not liberal vs conservative in a policy sense, but in a cultural sense, much more important for signaling. I think many liberals (I include myself) would say it's racially tinged to joke that a doctor and a drug dealer must be related because they have the same Spanish name.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    I see, so it separates the people that assume that it is an example of racial profiling because there is a POC involved? Is the assumption that the person being mocked is singled out because of their Spanish last name.
    - comicjk 5y ago
      Something like that, sure. Apart from the question of whether the joke is good or bad, I think it's pretty clear from the reactions here that it has a political valence.
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        I agree that is strong point that such comments trigger some readers. I imagine that any politically savvy author like this one evaluates the inclusion of jokes involving POC in their editing process today. As far as intent, I am more inclined to believe the author decided to leave it intentionally, not to endear the conservative reader, but because they believe that while some readers may be offended, that they didn't want to engage in self censorship when they personally didn't see anything objectionable. After all, I think the conservative reader would gloss over this as unremarkable, and only some liberal readers would hear it as a "dog whistle", so they aren't endearing anyone. I think this is inline with some of the author's other writings which advocate taking responsibility for one's actions and intentions, but not necessarily catering to everyone else's possible reactions and emotions. That said, I'm usually assume pretty charitable intentions as a reader when it comes to this sort of thing, so I have my own biases.
        low_tech_love 5y ago
        The point remains that he singled out a latin-american surname in order to google and look for criminals to relate to. That means he expected to find something, and did. Would he think to do the same with an european surname? And more importantly, would it still sound cool and funny to his audience?
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        OK, so it all comes down to assumptions. I honestly assumed he found the tweet when looking the researcher, and would have made the same joke if the name were Mike Smith. I didn't think the joke was especially entertaining, and don't see it being any more or less cool or funny with a Spanish name. I could see how if the exact opposite were true, it could be racist.

shkkmo 5y ago

It is pretty cringy. I believe the implication is that the study was so poorly performed and produced such outlandish results that the researchers had to be high on drugs or something...

s1artibartfast 5y ago

I think you missed the point of the comparison. It wasn't a real claim that they are literally the same person. It was a joke that that the study was so suspicious and potentially fraudulent that the author could be a criminal drug dealer...

low_tech_love 5y ago
Sure it’s a joke. A very bad, tasteless, and racist joke. I get it!
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  How is it racist? Is any joke that targets a POC racist even if there is no racial content or nature to the joke?
  - low_tech_love 5y ago
    I’m not in the mood to give a lecture on how the real racism is between the lines, if you can’t see it, good for you. The entire article is condescending against research done outside the main european/north-american axis, using words like “Egyptian” and “Mexican” to set the tone of the comments, as if to say “you know what to expect from these people”. There is absolutely no reason to connect the researcher and the criminal like he did other than prejudice. Surely I can find a criminal in the USA with your surname, but I bet you wouldn’t find it funny if I publicly implied you were related, or even worse, that you were connected to their crimes.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      >The entire article is condescending against research done outside the main european/north-american axis, using words like “Egyptian” and “Mexican” to set the tone of the comments, as if to say “you know what to expect from these people”. I agree that the article is condescending/skeptical of studies outside the european/north-american axis. I don't think the driver is a belief that brown people can't do science, but that medical research coming from these countries is generally lower quality and less likely to be replicable. The latter is a commonly held belief in the medical research community, which has a basis in reality. >There is absolutely no reason to connect the researcher and the criminal like he did other than prejudice. The alternate reason is given at length in the three paragraphs above. Of all the studies, this one is the most likely to be deliberate fraud. The comparison of the joke is demeaning and is intended to be disparaging. The insinuation is that Espitia-Hernandez the doctor is as trustworthy as Espitia-Hernandez the drug dealer, not because they are both Mexican or family, but because Espitia-Hernandez the doctor is a liar and a fraudster.