17 ms·

> most people buying stuff on Amazon would be using a debit card, folks only really use credit cards for large purchases Huh? I'm in the UK, have been an Amazo

by mrec 5y ago

> most people buying stuff on Amazon would be using a debit card, folks only really use credit cards for large purchases Huh? I'm in the UK, have been an Amazon customer for over 20 years and have always used a credit card for everything. I didn't even know you could use a debit card, and can't see any reason you'd want to. Paid off in full every month, better consumer protection, what's not to like?

jdiez17 5y ago
> what's not to like? Well, the predatory business model, for one. The reason your credit card company can offer you "better consumer protection" and other benefits is because they count on a percentage of people not paying off their debt in time (and thus making more money out of them). Also, I personally wouldn't want "better consumer protection" to be mediated by a private company. That should just be the default.
- ericd 5y ago
  It's not necessarily predatory, so much as they take a couple percent of everything that flows through them. Also, they don't take the hit on chargebacks, the merchant does. Those two things cover purchase protection just fine without relying on people getting hit with high interest rates.
  - iampims 5y ago
    And merchant add 2% to their base price which amounts to everyone not using a credit card “subsidizing” the benefits to all credit card users.
    - robjan 5y ago
      The cost of handling cash is similar to handling a credit card transaction
      - Symbiote 5y ago
        And the cost of handling a debit card transaction is less than either of these. In bits of Europe where it's allowed (like here in Denmark), it's not unusual for shops to add a percentage to the total for payments by local credit card, business credit card and/or foreign credit card. I haven't yet seen a shop with a different price for cash vs debit cards.
    - refurb 5y ago
      No, it’s not like at some point merchants said “oh yeah, let’s add 2% to account for credit card processing fees”. The appeal of credit cards is higher volume - more purchases because people can put it on credit, it’s more convenient, etc. That’s why you’ll see even roadside fruit stands offer credit card payments. Plus stores are in competition with each other (to varying degrees). Some will choose to absorb the entire 2% or a part of it since, in their mind, it’s a net positive trade off. It’s like saying a 5% increase in property taxes are just passed through as a rent increase. It all depends on the market. The right answer is something between 0-100% is passed through.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- fredoralive 5y ago
  In a UK context, the "better consumer protection" comes from the Consumer Credit Act 1974, not the banks goodwill. (Although the time my debit card did get stolen somehow, my bank did refund out of goodwill presmably becuase they didn't want to lose a customer).
  - rkangel 5y ago
    You actually get much better payment protection from a debit card than people are generally aware of. In the UK, the difference between a debit card and credit card is actually not very big due to legal protections (although you might have an easier time claiming off your credit card).
    - HatchedLake721 5y ago
      You sure? Section 75 is not equivalent to requesting a chargeback. https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act-aZCUb9i8Kwfa https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-7...
  - PeterisP 5y ago
    " the time my debit card did get stolen somehow, my bank did refund out of goodwill" - IMHO not, depending on when that happened, the bank would not have a choice because of EU payment service directive which extends similar (but not exactly the same) protections to all payment instruments including debit cards.
- stillicidious 5y ago
  Visa debit also has transaction fees, often fixed to the same as credit for small vendors. Avoiding credit cards does not fix that.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > Also, I personally wouldn't want "better consumer protection" to be mediated by a private company. That should just be the default. You’re confused - in the UK the better consumer protection with a credit card is the law. On debit cards it’s at their discretion.
input_sh 5y ago
Here's why: two debit cards, one for receiving money, one for spending money. Automated payment from the 1st one to the 2nd one once a month with a fixed amount you expect to spend in a month. Nothing to pay off, you're spending your own money, can't be overcharged, can't go below zero, if someone leaks your spending card they can't touch the majority of your money, no scummy business practices. Never owned a credit card, don't have the slightest wish to do so.
- iso1631 5y ago
  Your plan might work with a pre-loaded credit card
- gambiting 5y ago
  >>one for receiving money, What do you mean debit card for receiving money? In what sense? >> Automated payment from the 1st one to the 2nd one Again, I have absolutely no idea what you mean by that. Payment from a debit card to a debit card? What?
  - toyg 5y ago
    I guess he's trying to compartimentalize so that, if the spending account is compromised and depleted, the main-income one is untouched. Seems like a lot of work to do what CCs do automatically. I guess the upside is that crazy spending is impossible (well, if you make sure to forbid negative balances on the spending account) and it's impossible to accrue interest.
    - oarsinsync 5y ago
      > well, if you make sure to forbid negative balances on the spending account I'm unaware of a UK bank that will let you do this, so...
      - tazjin 5y ago
        Monzo. It's the default in fact, since in order to get an overdraft you need to do a credit application.
gambiting 5y ago
You must be an actual anomaly, like yeah, what you are saying makes sense, but you are the only person I've ever heard about who does that here in UK. Everyone I know, me included, just uses debit cards for purchases everywhere including Amazon. I have a credit card but I very very very rarely use it for anything.
- reallydontask 5y ago
  >Everyone I know, me included, just uses debit cards for purchases everywhere including Amazon. This is just as anecdotal as GP or indeed myself. I never use a debit card and don't know anybody that uses them other than for getting cash out of an ATM
  - leoedin 5y ago
    How old are you? People using credit cards in my circle (early 30s, London) are firmly the minority. If we split a bill in a restaurant it's all debit cards. Maybe there's one person with an amex or something.
    - screwt 5y ago
      Do you check everyone's card when you split the bill? What makes you think the others are debit rather than credit cards? For info: the debit & credit cards from my bank look almost identical. The only difference is one says "credit" in small black text. My credit card handles exactly like my debit card in terms of tap-and-pay etc. I just wouldn't use it to take out cash from an ATM, but then I can't remember when I last needed to do that.
- toyg 5y ago
  Uk here, I use credit cards for everything. Used wisely, consumer credit is incredibly useful. Example: bought a 4k motorbike, dealer finance or savings drawdown would have cost me hundreds; slapped it all on an 18-months 0% card and am now slowly repaying it on my own schedule, at no extra cost, while happily riding the thing.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ovi256 5y ago
The fact that you, one individual uses CCs for everything does not contradict the facts that he gave.
oarsinsync 5y ago
I am like you. I'm pretty sure we are the minority. Most people I know don't trust themselves with credit.
cameronh90 5y ago
"I didn't even know you could use a debit card," Is there ever a situation that you can use a credit card but not a debit card? There are occasionally places that only accept debit cards, but I think the only time I've had a debit card refused was when hiring a car.
- stevesimmons 5y ago
  The reason for that is the car rental company does a "pre-auth" that ties up some of your credit limit (reduces your "open to buy" amount), in case you damage the car or don't return it with a full tank of petrol. Hotels will sometimes do the same for a room night plus potential minibar charges. The pre-auth gets released when you make the payment at the end of the car rental period.
  - AnssiH 5y ago
    "Pre-auth" works the same way for VISA/MC debit and VISA/MC credit. The amount is (temporarily) deducted from my available balance when I use a debit card, just like it is deducted from the credit limit when I use a credit card.
- andrewshadura 5y ago
  At some point Uber only accepted credit cards, but not debit cards.
- maccard 5y ago
  About 10 years ago a hotel I had prepaid wouldn't take a debit card for a damage deposit, but that's the only time in my life I've been asked for credit instead of debit.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Credit card fees?
- aembleton 5y ago
  Get a fee free credit card and use direct debit to pay off in full each month.
imwillofficial 5y ago
So you can’t grasp that most other people might do things differently because you’ve done it one way for a long time?
- mrec 5y ago
  I'd call that a radical interpretation of the text.

by mrec 5y ago

jdiez17 5y ago

> what's not to like? Well, the predatory business model, for one. The reason your credit card company can offer you "better consumer protection" and other benefits is because they count on a percentage of people not paying off their debt in time (and thus making more money out of them). Also, I personally wouldn't want "better consumer protection" to be mediated by a private company. That should just be the default.

ericd 5y ago
It's not necessarily predatory, so much as they take a couple percent of everything that flows through them. Also, they don't take the hit on chargebacks, the merchant does. Those two things cover purchase protection just fine without relying on people getting hit with high interest rates.
- iampims 5y ago
  And merchant add 2% to their base price which amounts to everyone not using a credit card “subsidizing” the benefits to all credit card users.
  - robjan 5y ago
    The cost of handling cash is similar to handling a credit card transaction
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      And the cost of handling a debit card transaction is less than either of these. In bits of Europe where it's allowed (like here in Denmark), it's not unusual for shops to add a percentage to the total for payments by local credit card, business credit card and/or foreign credit card. I haven't yet seen a shop with a different price for cash vs debit cards.
  - refurb 5y ago
    No, it’s not like at some point merchants said “oh yeah, let’s add 2% to account for credit card processing fees”. The appeal of credit cards is higher volume - more purchases because people can put it on credit, it’s more convenient, etc. That’s why you’ll see even roadside fruit stands offer credit card payments. Plus stores are in competition with each other (to varying degrees). Some will choose to absorb the entire 2% or a part of it since, in their mind, it’s a net positive trade off. It’s like saying a 5% increase in property taxes are just passed through as a rent increase. It all depends on the market. The right answer is something between 0-100% is passed through.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
fredoralive 5y ago
In a UK context, the "better consumer protection" comes from the Consumer Credit Act 1974, not the banks goodwill. (Although the time my debit card did get stolen somehow, my bank did refund out of goodwill presmably becuase they didn't want to lose a customer).
- rkangel 5y ago
  You actually get much better payment protection from a debit card than people are generally aware of. In the UK, the difference between a debit card and credit card is actually not very big due to legal protections (although you might have an easier time claiming off your credit card).
  - HatchedLake721 5y ago
    You sure? Section 75 is not equivalent to requesting a chargeback. https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act-aZCUb9i8Kwfa https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-7...
- PeterisP 5y ago
  " the time my debit card did get stolen somehow, my bank did refund out of goodwill" - IMHO not, depending on when that happened, the bank would not have a choice because of EU payment service directive which extends similar (but not exactly the same) protections to all payment instruments including debit cards.
stillicidious 5y ago
Visa debit also has transaction fees, often fixed to the same as credit for small vendors. Avoiding credit cards does not fix that.
chrisseaton 5y ago
> Also, I personally wouldn't want "better consumer protection" to be mediated by a private company. That should just be the default. You’re confused - in the UK the better consumer protection with a credit card is the law. On debit cards it’s at their discretion.

input_sh 5y ago

Here's why: two debit cards, one for receiving money, one for spending money. Automated payment from the 1st one to the 2nd one once a month with a fixed amount you expect to spend in a month. Nothing to pay off, you're spending your own money, can't be overcharged, can't go below zero, if someone leaks your spending card they can't touch the majority of your money, no scummy business practices. Never owned a credit card, don't have the slightest wish to do so.

iso1631 5y ago
Your plan might work with a pre-loaded credit card
gambiting 5y ago
>>one for receiving money, What do you mean debit card for receiving money? In what sense? >> Automated payment from the 1st one to the 2nd one Again, I have absolutely no idea what you mean by that. Payment from a debit card to a debit card? What?
- toyg 5y ago
  I guess he's trying to compartimentalize so that, if the spending account is compromised and depleted, the main-income one is untouched. Seems like a lot of work to do what CCs do automatically. I guess the upside is that crazy spending is impossible (well, if you make sure to forbid negative balances on the spending account) and it's impossible to accrue interest.
  - oarsinsync 5y ago
    > well, if you make sure to forbid negative balances on the spending account I'm unaware of a UK bank that will let you do this, so...
    - tazjin 5y ago
      Monzo. It's the default in fact, since in order to get an overdraft you need to do a credit application.

gambiting 5y ago

You must be an actual anomaly, like yeah, what you are saying makes sense, but you are the only person I've ever heard about who does that here in UK. Everyone I know, me included, just uses debit cards for purchases everywhere including Amazon. I have a credit card but I very very very rarely use it for anything.

reallydontask 5y ago
>Everyone I know, me included, just uses debit cards for purchases everywhere including Amazon. This is just as anecdotal as GP or indeed myself. I never use a debit card and don't know anybody that uses them other than for getting cash out of an ATM
- leoedin 5y ago
  How old are you? People using credit cards in my circle (early 30s, London) are firmly the minority. If we split a bill in a restaurant it's all debit cards. Maybe there's one person with an amex or something.
  - screwt 5y ago
    Do you check everyone's card when you split the bill? What makes you think the others are debit rather than credit cards? For info: the debit & credit cards from my bank look almost identical. The only difference is one says "credit" in small black text. My credit card handles exactly like my debit card in terms of tap-and-pay etc. I just wouldn't use it to take out cash from an ATM, but then I can't remember when I last needed to do that.
toyg 5y ago
Uk here, I use credit cards for everything. Used wisely, consumer credit is incredibly useful. Example: bought a 4k motorbike, dealer finance or savings drawdown would have cost me hundreds; slapped it all on an 18-months 0% card and am now slowly repaying it on my own schedule, at no extra cost, while happily riding the thing.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ovi256 5y ago

The fact that you, one individual uses CCs for everything does not contradict the facts that he gave.

oarsinsync 5y ago

I am like you. I'm pretty sure we are the minority. Most people I know don't trust themselves with credit.

cameronh90 5y ago

"I didn't even know you could use a debit card," Is there ever a situation that you can use a credit card but not a debit card? There are occasionally places that only accept debit cards, but I think the only time I've had a debit card refused was when hiring a car.

stevesimmons 5y ago
The reason for that is the car rental company does a "pre-auth" that ties up some of your credit limit (reduces your "open to buy" amount), in case you damage the car or don't return it with a full tank of petrol. Hotels will sometimes do the same for a room night plus potential minibar charges. The pre-auth gets released when you make the payment at the end of the car rental period.
- AnssiH 5y ago
  "Pre-auth" works the same way for VISA/MC debit and VISA/MC credit. The amount is (temporarily) deducted from my available balance when I use a debit card, just like it is deducted from the credit limit when I use a credit card.
andrewshadura 5y ago
At some point Uber only accepted credit cards, but not debit cards.
maccard 5y ago
About 10 years ago a hotel I had prepaid wouldn't take a debit card for a damage deposit, but that's the only time in my life I've been asked for credit instead of debit.

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

Credit card fees?

aembleton 5y ago
Get a fee free credit card and use direct debit to pay off in full each month.

imwillofficial 5y ago

So you can’t grasp that most other people might do things differently because you’ve done it one way for a long time?

mrec 5y ago
I'd call that a radical interpretation of the text.