4 ms·

My step-son was recently prescribed a small one off dose of ivermectin by a dermatologist to deal with a rather resistant case of scabies he acquired at a sport

My step-son was recently prescribed a small one off dose of ivermectin by a dermatologist to deal with a rather resistant case of scabies he acquired at a sports tournament. It took the pharmacy a couple of days to source, because signficant controls had to be put in place around prescribing it due to well, I'm just going to say what I think - the amazing capacity for the Internet to deliver dumbassery to people who are open to it, thanks to the algorithms implemented by Google and Facebook. The current dominance of algorithmic social media is going to make a fascinating history book one day. Right now it feels somewhat dystopian how easily misinformation is spread online because it yields a high engagement metric.

jacquesm 5y ago
Yes, and what's more: how easy it is to enlist people to push such a bullshit story further than it would ever go on its own. That is the really bad side of this, the weaponizing of social media to do real world harm to entire populations.
radu_floricica 5y ago
Did you read the article? One of the main points was that it's not dumbassery. You have multiple studies saying a drug works, being contradicted by experts that have been wrong multiple time this year and have a vested interest in what they're claiming. This is the opposite of dumb. It turned out not to be true, but such is life - not all the correct choices are also true in the end. It's also counterproductive in so many ways to call this dumb. And it's making yourself a huge disfavor by believing that everything you see online but disagree with is automatically misinformation.
- EdwardDiego 5y ago
  People seeking out medication because they think it's a prophylactic for Covid-19 is not what any of those studies covered.
  - radu_floricica 5y ago
    The irony of the situation is that it _is_ a mild-to-moderate prophylactic for severe Covid. In countries where parasites are endemic it's a significant difference to enter covid with parasites, or having gotten rid of them previously with a course of Ivermectin. Comment section is pretty Western-centric in behaving as if the article proves Ivermectin doesn't work. The fact that we know (or are pretty sure we know) what the mechanism of action is doesn't make it "not work", it just makes it another tool in the box.
    - EdwardDiego 5y ago
      It's already a known cure for worms, it's what it's usually prescribed for. And reducing parasite load helps the immune system. What it isn't, is a drug that objectively protects against Covid. Yet we have American media claiming it as such, and people selling clothing to the British with the slogan "Ivermectin. Safe. Lo-cost[sic]. Beats Covid." Many other things also help the immune system. Adequate sleep. Balanced diet. Less stress. But I don't see any news pundits obsessing about why doctors aren't prescribing celery.
- EdwardDiego 5y ago
  Incidentally, you're right about my throwing labels around not exactly helping things - I'd edit my comment to change it if I was still within the edit window.
RubberMullet 5y ago
[flagged]
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  No they're not. That's you being biased against information you dislike and then justifying its "falseness" by attaching whatever -ist label makes you feel better. Thinking that white supremacists and Nazis are running all over the place in 2021 is pure bs propaganda being pushed by our media. Is your point here to suggest that belief in alternative COVID treatments means you're a racist bigot? Proof please.
  - RubberMullet 5y ago
    Given how ridiculous my comment was I didn't feel the need to preface it with any sort of sarcasm warning. My apologies.
    - CountDrewku 5y ago
      Yeah that totally flew over my head. I hear stuff like that enough though that it isn't far off from what a lot of people actually believe.
s1artibartfast 5y ago
The ironic part of this is that Ivermectin is not FDA approved for the treatment of scabies. Your doctor was prescribing it off label, based on personal judgement that it has therapeutic effect. That is not to say it doesn't work for scabies, I hope it worked for you.
- EdwardDiego 5y ago
  Good thing I'm not American then eh. ;) https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/datasheet/s/Stromectoltab.pdf https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/datasheet/s/Stromectoltab....
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    I feel this just underscores the silliness of criticizing doctors for assessing the literature and prescribing drugs they think would benefit their patients.
    - EdwardDiego 5y ago
      Indeed, but the literature on ivermectin for scabies is rather consistent - it works. Whereas the literature on ivermectin as a prophylatic for Covid is...well, still in dramatic flux, and there's some very strong conflicts of interest from some of the authors involved. I was reading the original meta-analysis[1] by the group Scott mentioned here: > One of them later revised their results to exclude Elgazzar and still found strong efficacy for ivermectin, but they still included Niaee and some other dubious studies. And looked into one of the studies authors, and well, it was interesting. Her submission here[2] claims that 2402 people have died due to COVID vaccinations (I'm assuming this was a 2020 submission, as the number of deaths in VigiAccess is farrrr higher now) based on data from the VigiAccess database, which has a massive disclaimer. > The information on this website relates to potential side effects; that is, symptoms and other circumstances that have been observed following the use of a medicinal product, but which may or may not be related to or caused by that product . Information in VigiAccess on potential side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicinal product or its active substance either caused the observed effect or is unsafe to use. Confirming a causal link is a complex process that requires a thorough scientific assessment and detailed evaluation of all available data. The information on this website, therefore, does not reflect any confirmed link between a medicinal product and a side effect . And on her company's website, there's a link to a Gofundme, but if you click it you get redirected to a PDF that's... also interesting. > After 5 months on-line, an account review and a handsome profit from our campaign, GoFundMe have cancelled our account! No notification, no warning, no explanation given. Just summarily pulled. What indecent cowards! It then links at the bottom to an organisation she founded that accepts donations and sells sweet ivermectin swag.[3] Sadly only ships to the UK though. [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/ [2]: https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/36858/pdf/ https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/36858/pdf/ [3]: https://bird-group.org/birdstore/ https://bird-group.org/birdstore/

jacquesm 5y ago

Yes, and what's more: how easy it is to enlist people to push such a bullshit story further than it would ever go on its own. That is the really bad side of this, the weaponizing of social media to do real world harm to entire populations.

radu_floricica 5y ago

Did you read the article? One of the main points was that it's not dumbassery. You have multiple studies saying a drug works, being contradicted by experts that have been wrong multiple time this year and have a vested interest in what they're claiming. This is the opposite of dumb. It turned out not to be true, but such is life - not all the correct choices are also true in the end. It's also counterproductive in so many ways to call this dumb. And it's making yourself a huge disfavor by believing that everything you see online but disagree with is automatically misinformation.

EdwardDiego 5y ago
People seeking out medication because they think it's a prophylactic for Covid-19 is not what any of those studies covered.
- radu_floricica 5y ago
  The irony of the situation is that it _is_ a mild-to-moderate prophylactic for severe Covid. In countries where parasites are endemic it's a significant difference to enter covid with parasites, or having gotten rid of them previously with a course of Ivermectin. Comment section is pretty Western-centric in behaving as if the article proves Ivermectin doesn't work. The fact that we know (or are pretty sure we know) what the mechanism of action is doesn't make it "not work", it just makes it another tool in the box.
  - EdwardDiego 5y ago
    It's already a known cure for worms, it's what it's usually prescribed for. And reducing parasite load helps the immune system. What it isn't, is a drug that objectively protects against Covid. Yet we have American media claiming it as such, and people selling clothing to the British with the slogan "Ivermectin. Safe. Lo-cost[sic]. Beats Covid." Many other things also help the immune system. Adequate sleep. Balanced diet. Less stress. But I don't see any news pundits obsessing about why doctors aren't prescribing celery.
EdwardDiego 5y ago
Incidentally, you're right about my throwing labels around not exactly helping things - I'd edit my comment to change it if I was still within the edit window.

RubberMullet 5y ago

[flagged]

CountDrewku 5y ago
No they're not. That's you being biased against information you dislike and then justifying its "falseness" by attaching whatever -ist label makes you feel better. Thinking that white supremacists and Nazis are running all over the place in 2021 is pure bs propaganda being pushed by our media. Is your point here to suggest that belief in alternative COVID treatments means you're a racist bigot? Proof please.
- RubberMullet 5y ago
  Given how ridiculous my comment was I didn't feel the need to preface it with any sort of sarcasm warning. My apologies.
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    Yeah that totally flew over my head. I hear stuff like that enough though that it isn't far off from what a lot of people actually believe.

s1artibartfast 5y ago

The ironic part of this is that Ivermectin is not FDA approved for the treatment of scabies. Your doctor was prescribing it off label, based on personal judgement that it has therapeutic effect. That is not to say it doesn't work for scabies, I hope it worked for you.

EdwardDiego 5y ago
Good thing I'm not American then eh. ;) https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/datasheet/s/Stromectoltab.pdf https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/datasheet/s/Stromectoltab....
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  I feel this just underscores the silliness of criticizing doctors for assessing the literature and prescribing drugs they think would benefit their patients.
  - EdwardDiego 5y ago
    Indeed, but the literature on ivermectin for scabies is rather consistent - it works. Whereas the literature on ivermectin as a prophylatic for Covid is...well, still in dramatic flux, and there's some very strong conflicts of interest from some of the authors involved. I was reading the original meta-analysis[1] by the group Scott mentioned here: > One of them later revised their results to exclude Elgazzar and still found strong efficacy for ivermectin, but they still included Niaee and some other dubious studies. And looked into one of the studies authors, and well, it was interesting. Her submission here[2] claims that 2402 people have died due to COVID vaccinations (I'm assuming this was a 2020 submission, as the number of deaths in VigiAccess is farrrr higher now) based on data from the VigiAccess database, which has a massive disclaimer. > The information on this website relates to potential side effects; that is, symptoms and other circumstances that have been observed following the use of a medicinal product, but which may or may not be related to or caused by that product . Information in VigiAccess on potential side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicinal product or its active substance either caused the observed effect or is unsafe to use. Confirming a causal link is a complex process that requires a thorough scientific assessment and detailed evaluation of all available data. The information on this website, therefore, does not reflect any confirmed link between a medicinal product and a side effect . And on her company's website, there's a link to a Gofundme, but if you click it you get redirected to a PDF that's... also interesting. > After 5 months on-line, an account review and a handsome profit from our campaign, GoFundMe have cancelled our account! No notification, no warning, no explanation given. Just summarily pulled. What indecent cowards! It then links at the bottom to an organisation she founded that accepts donations and sells sweet ivermectin swag.[3] Sadly only ships to the UK though. [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/ [2]: https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/36858/pdf/ https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/36858/pdf/ [3]: https://bird-group.org/birdstore/ https://bird-group.org/birdstore/