6 ms·

As someone with poor sensitivity to coffee, I’ve always wondered if these studies actually dismiss the possibility that people who drink coffee are people who c

by baby 5y ago

As someone with poor sensitivity to coffee, I’ve always wondered if these studies actually dismiss the possibility that people who drink coffee are people who can stand it, and as such have stronger hearts or something, and this it’s not a consequence of drinking coffee just a correlation.

djmips 5y ago
I think this is an interesting line of thinking. I was thinking along the same lines. I think it's probably the 'or something'. It's difficult to imagine what that would be exactly.
DoreenMichele 5y ago
That's actually a good thought. I have a genetic disorder. A lot of my food preferences turn out to be "medicinal" so to speak for that condition.
tessierashpool 5y ago
coffee sensitivity is due to an enzyme difference, not anything cardiac-related. the enzymes in coffee-sensitive people break down caffeine more slowly, prolonging its effect.
- bencollier49 5y ago
  Can confirm - coffee sensitive. If I have a coffee at 11am, my heart rate will rise to 110 and stay there until I go to bed, before slowly declining overnight. Discovered the gene thanks to consumer genetic testing, and the heart rate thing with a fitbit. I'm more careful these days.
  - djmips 5y ago
    What about decaf?
    - baby 5y ago
      That's what I do personally, I only consume decaf (and maybe once a month I'll dare drinking coffee and regret it after). People make fun of me, but I like the taste of coffee and I don't want to have a heart attack from drinking it :)
bhy 5y ago
I read that some studies have shown even decaffeinated coffee have health benefits. It's not only because of the caffeine.
siva7 5y ago
I wouldn’t be surprised if they haven’t. That would be the topic of another study.
_Microft 5y ago
Or that it is that frequent coffee and tea drinkers have a higher liquid intake per day or that it’s a socio-economic thing and people who cannot afford these are more at risk, … All the study claimed was an „association“, nothing more.
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  Or that it is that frequent coffee and tea drinkers have a higher liquid intake per day That thought crossed my mind, actually.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    I think in my case, I benefit from all the exercise of getting up and going to the bathroom every 30 minutes.
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      I don't know if you are joking or not, but exercise (muscle movement) helps clear lymph: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25427090 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25427090
- tomrod 5y ago
  I plan to read more to understand their robustness controls, instrumental variable or other control strategy, etc. for causal inference. This said, they do control for many of the factors one would expect. From their Covariates section: > Covariates > In the present study, the selection of covariates based on (1) demographic variables, including sex, age, ethnicity background, education level, and income; and (2) a priori knowledge of potential confounding factors associated with incident stroke and dementia [30,31]. Covariates were documented including sex, age, ethnicity (White, Asian or Asian British, Black or Black British, and Other ethnic group), qualification (college or university degree, Advanced [A] levels/Advanced Subsidiary [AS] levels or equivalent, Ordinary [O] levels/General Certificate of Secondary Education [GCSE] or equivalent, Certificate of Secondary Education [CSE] or equivalent, National Vocational Qualification [NVQ] or Higher National Diploma [HND] or Higher National Certificate [HNC] or equivalent, other professional qualifications, or none of the above), income (less than £18,000, 18,000 to 30,999, 31,000 to 51,999, 52,000 to 100,000, and greater than 100,000), BMI (<25, 25 to <30, 30 to <35, and ≥35 kg/m2), smoking status (never, former, and current), alcohol status (never, former, and current), physical activity (low, moderate, and high), consumption of sugar-sweetened beverages, history of diabetes, history of coronary artery disease, high-density lipoprotein (HDL), low-density lipoprotein (LDL), and diet pattern (healthy and unhealthy, healthy diet was based on consumption of at least 4 of 7 dietary components: (1) fruits: ≥3 servings/day; (2) vegetables: ≥3 servings/day; (3) fish: ≥2 servings/week; (4) processed meats: ≤1 serving/week; (5) unprocessed red meats: ≤1.5 servings/week; (6) whole grains: ≥3 servings/day; (7) refined grains: ≤1.5 servings/day [32–35]) (S1 Table). > Information on cardiovascular arterial disease (CAD) was derived from medical records (ICD-10 codes I20 to I25). Diabetes was ascertained on the basis of medical records (ICD-10 codes E10 to E14), glycated hemoglobin ≥6.5%, and the use of antidiabetic drugs. Hypertension was defined as systolic blood pressure (SBP) ≥140 mm Hg or diastolic blood pressure (DBP) ≥90 mm Hg, use of antihypertension agents, or medical records (ICD-10 codes I10 to I13 and I15). Cancer was identified through linkage to the National Health Service (NHS) Central Register (ICD-10 codes C00 to C97).
brigandish 5y ago
There are genetic variants associated with coffee consumption[1] so you're right, in a sense the groups are self selecting. It still could be the coffee and tea though, this kind of study could be the first step to looking deeper and finding out. [1] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/genetic-variants-linked-with-coffee-drinking/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/genetic-var...
dehrmann 5y ago
As others have mentioned, there's the metabolism bit, but as someone who's gone back and forth between decaf and regular, when you're not accustomed to caffeine, there's a bit of uncomfortablness that comes with the added energy. If I keep going and rebuild the tolerance, it goes way.
techsin101 5y ago
black tea with milk tastes better and easier on stomach

by baby 5y ago

djmips 5y ago

I think this is an interesting line of thinking. I was thinking along the same lines. I think it's probably the 'or something'. It's difficult to imagine what that would be exactly.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

That's actually a good thought. I have a genetic disorder. A lot of my food preferences turn out to be "medicinal" so to speak for that condition.

tessierashpool 5y ago

coffee sensitivity is due to an enzyme difference, not anything cardiac-related. the enzymes in coffee-sensitive people break down caffeine more slowly, prolonging its effect.

bencollier49 5y ago
Can confirm - coffee sensitive. If I have a coffee at 11am, my heart rate will rise to 110 and stay there until I go to bed, before slowly declining overnight. Discovered the gene thanks to consumer genetic testing, and the heart rate thing with a fitbit. I'm more careful these days.
- djmips 5y ago
  What about decaf?
  - baby 5y ago
    That's what I do personally, I only consume decaf (and maybe once a month I'll dare drinking coffee and regret it after). People make fun of me, but I like the taste of coffee and I don't want to have a heart attack from drinking it :)

bhy 5y ago

I read that some studies have shown even decaffeinated coffee have health benefits. It's not only because of the caffeine.

siva7 5y ago

I wouldn’t be surprised if they haven’t. That would be the topic of another study.

_Microft 5y ago

Or that it is that frequent coffee and tea drinkers have a higher liquid intake per day or that it’s a socio-economic thing and people who cannot afford these are more at risk, … All the study claimed was an „association“, nothing more.

DoreenMichele 5y ago
Or that it is that frequent coffee and tea drinkers have a higher liquid intake per day That thought crossed my mind, actually.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  I think in my case, I benefit from all the exercise of getting up and going to the bathroom every 30 minutes.
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    I don't know if you are joking or not, but exercise (muscle movement) helps clear lymph: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25427090 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25427090
tomrod 5y ago
I plan to read more to understand their robustness controls, instrumental variable or other control strategy, etc. for causal inference. This said, they do control for many of the factors one would expect. From their Covariates section: > Covariates > In the present study, the selection of covariates based on (1) demographic variables, including sex, age, ethnicity background, education level, and income; and (2) a priori knowledge of potential confounding factors associated with incident stroke and dementia [30,31]. Covariates were documented including sex, age, ethnicity (White, Asian or Asian British, Black or Black British, and Other ethnic group), qualification (college or university degree, Advanced [A] levels/Advanced Subsidiary [AS] levels or equivalent, Ordinary [O] levels/General Certificate of Secondary Education [GCSE] or equivalent, Certificate of Secondary Education [CSE] or equivalent, National Vocational Qualification [NVQ] or Higher National Diploma [HND] or Higher National Certificate [HNC] or equivalent, other professional qualifications, or none of the above), income (less than £18,000, 18,000 to 30,999, 31,000 to 51,999, 52,000 to 100,000, and greater than 100,000), BMI (<25, 25 to <30, 30 to <35, and ≥35 kg/m2), smoking status (never, former, and current), alcohol status (never, former, and current), physical activity (low, moderate, and high), consumption of sugar-sweetened beverages, history of diabetes, history of coronary artery disease, high-density lipoprotein (HDL), low-density lipoprotein (LDL), and diet pattern (healthy and unhealthy, healthy diet was based on consumption of at least 4 of 7 dietary components: (1) fruits: ≥3 servings/day; (2) vegetables: ≥3 servings/day; (3) fish: ≥2 servings/week; (4) processed meats: ≤1 serving/week; (5) unprocessed red meats: ≤1.5 servings/week; (6) whole grains: ≥3 servings/day; (7) refined grains: ≤1.5 servings/day [32–35]) (S1 Table). > Information on cardiovascular arterial disease (CAD) was derived from medical records (ICD-10 codes I20 to I25). Diabetes was ascertained on the basis of medical records (ICD-10 codes E10 to E14), glycated hemoglobin ≥6.5%, and the use of antidiabetic drugs. Hypertension was defined as systolic blood pressure (SBP) ≥140 mm Hg or diastolic blood pressure (DBP) ≥90 mm Hg, use of antihypertension agents, or medical records (ICD-10 codes I10 to I13 and I15). Cancer was identified through linkage to the National Health Service (NHS) Central Register (ICD-10 codes C00 to C97).

brigandish 5y ago

There are genetic variants associated with coffee consumption[1] so you're right, in a sense the groups are self selecting. It still could be the coffee and tea though, this kind of study could be the first step to looking deeper and finding out. [1] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/genetic-variants-linked-with-coffee-drinking/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/genetic-var...

dehrmann 5y ago

As others have mentioned, there's the metabolism bit, but as someone who's gone back and forth between decaf and regular, when you're not accustomed to caffeine, there's a bit of uncomfortablness that comes with the added energy. If I keep going and rebuild the tolerance, it goes way.

techsin101 5y ago

black tea with milk tastes better and easier on stomach