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Consumption of coffee and tea and risk of developing stroke and dementia
- mcculley 5y agoAs a matter of documenting potential conflict of interest, the paper should indicate the caffeine addiction status of the authors.
- malkia 5y agoObligatory Dave Grohl - FRESH POOOAATS - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhdCslFcKFU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhdCslFcKFU
- Ice_cream_suit 5y agoMedicine 101: Never make the mistake of taking research in plos seriously. https://retractionwatch.com/?s=plos https://retractionwatch.com/?s=plos
- leemailll 5y agoPlos ONE is different from other journals published by PLOS.
- DantesKite 5y agoSweet. Strokes terrify me. Supposedly ubiquinol and citrus bergamot help prevent them, but I haven't researched deeply enough to make up my mind about it. I wonder what's the mechanism involved.
- caf 5y agoGo for Earl Grey then to get your bergamot and tea at the same time.
- elevaet 5y ago> We found that drinking coffee and tea separately or in combination were associated with lower risk of stroke and dementia. Intake of coffee alone or in combination with tea was associated with lower risk of poststroke dementia. Beyond this, there are so many other health benefits to reasonable coffee/tea drinking. It's one of the few addictions that probably ends up being good for you.
- popotamonga 5y agoBut which tea? There are thousands cant believe they are all the same.
- mschild 5y agoGoing by statistics, I'd arguee black, herbal, and green, with black tea leading with quite a margin. [0] [0] https://brandongaille.com/20-uk-tea-industry-statistics-and-trends/ https://brandongaille.com/20-uk-tea-industry-statistics-and-...
- dustintrex 5y agoIn the UK, perhaps. Much of the world prefers green.
- mschild 5y agoSure, but this study is based on UK data.
- puszczyk 5y agoBlack tea applies to Europe as a whole as far as I can tell. Which parts of the world prefer green? Chinese and some Asian restaurants here (Poland) feature green tea quite prominently, but that’s the limit of my experience.
- dustintrex 5y agoGreen tea is predominant in China, Japan and Korea, as well as much of Southeast and Central Asia. Moroccan tea is usually green as well.
- mirekrusin 5y agoCoffee + L-Theanin.
- 5y ago
- romanshrompsky 5y agoThis title alone almost gave me a heart attack. Happy to keep drinking tea.
- gigglesupstairs 5y agoYeah the title was loaded without being actually loaded. Haha
- quickthrower2 5y agoOk regardless of conclusion life is too short to give up grinding beans, extracting coffee from them and drinking it. Glad it’s “good for you” in this study.
- lostlogin 5y agoLove him or hate him, it’s hard to disagree with John Gruber’s proposed keys to success: 1) Fussy coffee 2) A clicky keyboard 3) Over carbonated water (Possibly poorly remembered).
- LegitShady 5y agodon't want to give up grinding beans, but I want to find an alternative to jamaican blue mountain so that my wallet stops complaining. Everything else seems hyper sour and acidic by comparison.
- denton-scratch 5y agoI paid £24 for 250g of Blue Mountain a few weeks ago. Unimpressed - it tasted like - er - coffee. I mean, it was like regular coffee, a bit smoother than usual. So I've gone back to my touchstone brew: Harar Hyena (it's from the Harar region in Ethiopia; the "hyena" bit is because the town is famous for being infested with hyenas). It costs half as much. I was warned the first time I bought it that it's not to everyone's taste; well, it's certainly to mine. It's fruity and complex. I certainly wouldn't describe it as acidic. I can't write tasting notes, I can't bear to be that pretentious; but The Spruce Eats says: "This flavor is often described as fruity and winey with a mocha note, medium acidity, and a full body."
- k3liutZu 5y agoUpvote for Ethiopian coffee. I don't have any local suppliers for _specific_ towns or farms, but me and the wife always scour the local coffeeshops for Ethiopian sourced coffee. Usually ~50 Lei ( £8.50 ) for 250g And is also usually excellent coffee
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- eurasiantiger 5y agoI would take this study with a grain of salt. It relies on self-reporting.
- lvturner 5y agoTime for a link to James Hoffmann - "The Magic of Salt in Coffee" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PUWQQ-joKE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PUWQQ-joKE
- Maxion 5y agoThe issue with research and the internet can be boiled down to singular dimissive comments like this. You see them especially a lot on Reddit. This is a prospective cohort study - it is not meant to cover all limitations. Every scientific study will have strength and weaknesses, an RCT won't ever have 350 000 participants. Studies with large sample sizes almost always have to resort to either self reporting or interviews in order to collect at least some of the data. You're not meant to take an individual study's results as the truth - it's the overall body of research that's important. When you see the same or very similar results from studies with varying study designs from different populations done by different researchers with different methods the results become more credible. Though this specific study is notable as the effect size is quite large, the bias from self reported coffee or tea intake would have to be quite large itself to remove it. And with regards to coffee and tea consumption and research, this is a pretty well researched area already, and the general consenus is that consuming tea or coffee does have health benefits.
- Rastonbury 5y agoWell said, especially your 2nd and 3rd lines. Saying "correlation =! causation" or similar adds nothing
- King-Aaron 5y agoSpeed-read the title, spat out my coffee Re-read the title and then the article conclusion, and slurped it back up off my desk
- smitty1e 5y agoWhich invites the question: to what defree are these results due to general hydration, verses coffee/tea specifically?
- scoopertrooper 5y agoCoffee containing a diuretic is a pretty poor source of hydration
- machinerychorus 5y agoIt's my understanding that caffeine doesn't have a diuretic effect on chronic users with a tolerance for caffeine. IOW if you drink a few cups of coffee every day, it isn't dehydrating you; but if you don't usually drink coffee and drink a few cups in quick succession, it will have a diuretic effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Physical_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Physical_2
- bagacrap 5y agocaffeine irritates the bladder, inducing urination (often urgently). But the total amount of liquid expelled after drinking coffee is not higher than after drinking an equivalent amount of water. In this sense it is not a diuretic and does not dehydrate you. Separately, enzymes in the coffee bean (not caffeine) also act as a peristaltic.
- ac29 5y agoCoffee is something like 99% water, though.
- King-Aaron 5y agoI was under the impression that tea contains a diuretic as well, and always just assumed it was the caffeine in it?
- baby 5y agoAs someone with poor sensitivity to coffee, I’ve always wondered if these studies actually dismiss the possibility that people who drink coffee are people who can stand it, and as such have stronger hearts or something, and this it’s not a consequence of drinking coffee just a correlation.
- djmips 5y agoI think this is an interesting line of thinking. I was thinking along the same lines. I think it's probably the 'or something'. It's difficult to imagine what that would be exactly.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoThat's actually a good thought. I have a genetic disorder. A lot of my food preferences turn out to be "medicinal" so to speak for that condition.
- tessierashpool 5y agocoffee sensitivity is due to an enzyme difference, not anything cardiac-related. the enzymes in coffee-sensitive people break down caffeine more slowly, prolonging its effect.
- bencollier49 5y agoCan confirm - coffee sensitive. If I have a coffee at 11am, my heart rate will rise to 110 and stay there until I go to bed, before slowly declining overnight. Discovered the gene thanks to consumer genetic testing, and the heart rate thing with a fitbit. I'm more careful these days.
- frazbin 5y agoTea is amazing.. the fluoride content is a bit bothersome though: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4808922/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4808922/ shame-- "all" you need to do is grow it in soil w/o F
- Gatsky 5y agoJust chiming in to say that these association studies are generally pretty useless. Good clickbait though. On the other hand Mendelian randomization studies are a brilliant and actually useful way to explore such associations.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- OGforces 5y agoWhatever those are don’t make me feel great as a result of my addictions. Please let me just have this one , lol.
- modriano 5y agoWow, that cookie prompt had such a dark pattern that it destroyed any credibility. I had to scroll down past multiple feet of blank space to get to the "accept my cookie choices" button, while the "accept all cookies" was visible from the start. Very scummy.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- nothrowaways 5y agoMain findings: Compared with those who did not drink tea and coffee, drinking 2 to 3 cups of coffee and 2 to 3 cups of tea per day was associated with a 32% (HR 0.68, 95% CI, 0.59 to 0.79; P < 0.001) lower risk of stroke and a 28% (HR, 0.72, 95% CI, 0.59 to 0.89; P = 0.002) lower risk of dementia. Moreover, the combination of coffee and tea consumption was associated with lower risk of ischemic stroke and vascular dementia. Additionally, the combination of tea and coffee was associated with a lower risk of poststroke dementia, with the lowest risk of incident poststroke dementia at a daily consumption level of 3 to 6 cups of coffee and tea (HR, 0.52, 95% CI, 0.32 to 0.83; P = 0.007).
- caffeine 5y agoThe take away here is: there is no obvious evidence in this data that coffee and tea cause stroke or dementia. So if we were worried about that, at least there is no obvious relationship.
- sokoloff 5y agoIsn’t there a stronger conclusion evident: that they appear to reduce the risk (rather than not increase it)?
- headsoup 5y agoAs is never highlighted, especially in media, is that it's relative risk reduction. Going by their study (and simplifying for argument's sake), there were 10k strokes out of 365k subjects, so <3% risk. A 30% risk reduction means now you're at 2% risk, so figure out whether that's worth adding coffee and tea for.
- rmbyrro 5y agoOn an individual level, it might be the difference between having dementia/stroke or not. The decrease from coffee/tea might make you cross the line back into healthy state, perhaps? I don't usually take conclusions from single studies like this, though. It's too easy to fool ourselves with statistics.
- Borrible 5y agoSince it suits my addiction, I happily ignore probable problems of the study design and approve of it. Like Agent Dale Cooper[0] would have put it, that's a damn fine study. [0] https://www.eater.com/2017/5/18/15656720/twin-peaks-dale-cooper-coffee https://www.eater.com/2017/5/18/15656720/twin-peaks-dale-coo...
- 02020202 5y agocaffeine is evil and normalization of its consumption because it's great business is even worse. i have quite after 20 years and it was not easy. i take all studies promoting its benefits as biased, manipulated and bough-out. a substance that constantly keeps you pumping with cortisol and keeps you in fight-or-flight state 24/7 is inherently damaging to your body, no matter what "studies" say.
- snerual 5y agoFrom what I can see, the research method is quite flawed. What if drinking more coffee or tea makes you die younger? This would result in the same data they base their conclusions on. E.g. dementia en strokes correlate with age. If you die young because of high coffee consumption you wouldn't show up in the "drank coffee and subsequently had a stroke" group.
- caffeine 5y agoIt explicitly says they controlled for age..
- curiousgal 5y agoAka survivorship bias.
- xenihn 5y agoI'd like to see a similar study with adderall thrown into the mix. I've been rotating between coffee, tea, and adderall for the past eight years.
- bflesch 5y agoInteresting - I'm wondering if both tea and coffee intake is just a proxy for people having cushy office jobs who therefore are less exposed to toxic substances over their lifetimes than others who work in non-office settings.
- sokoloff 5y agoMy grandfathers were a coal miner and a steel miller. Lots of coffee was consumed on/around the mines and on breaks in the mill. The image I have of both of them going off to work includes them carrying a silver or green painted Thermos bottle.
- jazzyjackson 5y agofactories invented the coffee break to increase worker productivity on long shifts (so Michael Pollan says), it is not a habit exclusive to white collar work.
- rich_sasha 5y agoI see results popping up from time to time that caffeine is good for cardiovascular health. That makes intuitive sense to me - since a big benefit of aerobic exercise is getting your heart rate up, caffeine should have some of a similar effect. This might be particularly strong in the demographic susceptible to strokes and dementia, as they are less likely to be exercising in the first place. Then, I wonder if better cardio health removes one stress factor causing these diseases. Not remotely a biologist, and heavy coffee drinker.
- mrjin 5y agoThe title makes me think consumption of coffee and tea together leads to higher risk of stroke and dementia. And the conclusion is just opposite.
- JamesGi 5y agoIn my personal unscientific opinion, I am observing complete opposite - coffee is the modern evil of our society. My gut feeling is telling me that coffee and digital devices are responsible for big parts of the population suffering from mental illnesses, caused via chronic sleep deprivation. Of course majority of those mental illnesses are under reported - being sleep deprived for months does not make you bipolar maybe, but depression can and does happen (as well as myriad of other issues). There are too many studies who show relationship between sleep and all kinds of illnesses (majority - mental), and nobody can argue that coffee is NOT responsible for that at least partially. When I recently quit on coffee, I had such strong withdrawal symptoms, I was unable to function for 4 days. I had strong headaches and was almost vomiting. No study will convince me this is a good/healthy thing for a human body. It is drug which is so omni-present, if you look around it is scary.
- rich_sasha 5y agoCoffee does not really affect my sleep. I know this for 2 reasons: 1. I periodically go off coffee, for various reasons, but frankly never notice much difference to my sleep quality. 2. I have 2 kids that deprive me of sleep much more effectively. Or, put otherwise, no matter how much I drank during the day, I fall asleep like a log. And then it's not coffee disturbing my sleep, but crying children. I can see though that coffee abuse _could_ lead to sleep deprivation and related issues. But it's like alcohol could lead to alcoholism, but doesn't have to. Though, incidentally, apparently deliberate sleep deprivation is one method of tackling depression - so it's not all bad. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-sleep-deprivation-eases-depression/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-sleep-depriva...
- throwanem 5y ago> apparently deliberate sleep deprivation is one method of tackling depression Briefly and temporarily, but efficacy quickly drops off with near-term repetition. As (apparently) with psychedelics, it's good for a temporary change of perspective that can be leveraged with the right techniques into lasting improvement, but much more of an adjuvant to therapy than a therapy in its own right.
- _Understated_ 5y agoI haven't read the whole doc but does it take into account stress or factors that lead to stress? For example, money problems, dangerous job, working in toxic environments etc. I reckon we don't put enough "science" into working out the life-extending properties of a non-toxic job and a health bank balance. FWIW I was diagnosed in September as having stable angina. I eat really healthy, don't smoke or drink, no family history of heart issues, and all my blood work was great. However, I have been under immense stress for the last two years to the point of sleepless nights etc (won't go into the details). I am convinced it's stress that did it! Edit: I'm fixed now btw :)
- remorses 5y agoThe title is a bit misleading
- tambourine_man 5y agoPhew, that’s great news. Let me get my cup.
- penjelly 5y agoid like to see a study on straight caffiene as well, so we know if caffiene is the main benefit or if its something in the bean juice instead
- dyeje 5y agoWhat kind of tea? Caffeinated specifically?
- christrowe 5y agoHow about other drinks, especially soft drinks. Isn't it correlated in developing health diseases?
- stubish 5y agoFiltered or unfiltered ground coffee? I recall other studies that correlated protection or risk of cancer with coffee to different studies with different cultural groups, and noticed that the studies showing negative effects where all cultures that typically drank unfiltered coffee. Which, as an instant coffee drinker, left me in the dark. This study does check type of coffee, but does not differentiate filtered or unfiltered ground coffee. Not that it helps me, as I think I need another coffee before I can make sense of the instant vs. ground comparisons (first reading it seems contradictory, so I'm assuming I'm misreading or missing some nuance).